Date of Transmission16 January 1994
Name of TapeRTLM
SourceArchive, R.P.F. Sec.
Prosecution ExhibitP103/295
Name of TranslatorPénine-Joie Muteteli
Date of Translation6 September 1999
Duration60 Minutes
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0295

Side A

Speaker: Noël HITIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

This is Radio R.T.L.M., it is ten minutes past three here in Kigali. Actually, we have reserved this day to peace-and-unity-loving M.R.N.D. members. You have listened to their leaders’ speeches here at the Kigali regional stadium and the discussions they had with their members. It is true that the rallies have their stamp of approval. It is during a rally that people show what is on their on their mind and that they are genuine members. As MUGENZI has just said, if you are invited to a rally, and you know the concerns of the organizers of the rally, you will not hesitate to tell them all the truth about the prevailing situation in your own party. You have just listened to MUGENZI’s view about the procedure of setting up a party’s institutions and legal representation. We have rules and regulations in our party. We have our own ideology. For their part, the M.R.N.D., M.D.R., PSI and PDC all have theirs. In short, all the parties have their ideologies. Their founders created them after serious reflection and after infusion of some ideology into them, didn’t they? Thus, any person who does not comply with the party’s ideology or any person who is expelled from the party should leave because the party is nobody’s property. Hein! [laughter] No one bought the party. Indeed, the party is like a cooperative. When the cooperative is tired of you, you leave. Hum!

You have just listened to MUGENZI. But as I told you earlier, Mathieu NGIRUMPATSE was the master of ceremony in charge of these festivities. In short, he has been directing them and he will have the last closing remarks as the chief

In his speech, he first thanked those who were in attendance. He thanked especially persons who were not members of his party, who had come, to support him. He then went on “I also thank Justin MUGENZI who is here present though a P.L. party member.” I have introduced to you other persons here present who are members of other parties. Since this morning, I have been introducing them to you as they arrived. Let us now listen to the closing remarks of the M.R.N.D. Party Chairman.

Speaker: Mathieu NGIRUMPATSE, M.R.N.D. Chairman

…and other friendly personalities who have taken the floor and who, on behalf of
MUGENZI, Chairman of the Parti Libéral, said very kind words about us. [Applause].

Today, we have to cast a glance at the past. When you walk so often on the hills, you end up believing they are all the same whereas there is a long distance between them. When you travel so often abroad, you end up believing all peoples are the same whereas they are not cousins. You suddenly come to a crossroads and you think it looks like the one you saw in another land. At this point in time, we are at similar crossroads, and I want us to cast a glance at the past and learn a lesson.

In 1958 and 1959, some individuals went to Nyanza and told the authorities at that time that there was a problem. They said some people were oppressed and exploited by others, that they were flogged while others lived in slavery that had already been abolished. The authorities at that time answered: “Go your way, let the farmers go on fanning and let those who are serving others accept to do so, there is no problem.”

Currently, some people are getting ready to lead because they believed that they have finally reached that stage. When they are told not to rush things because there are problems within the parties, they retorted: “Let those who want to die do so and those who are in servitude should stay there, there is no problem, we must inevitably take over power.” [short break].

You will also recall that at that time, after the 1959 disturbances broke out, some persons retired into a house in Kavumu and started compiling a list of people who had to die and who were subsequently killed.

For now, we observe that some individuals who feel power has eluded them because the people do not accept them, have started compiling lists of persons who have to die. Think, look back and you will realize that those events we went through can reoccur.

Those who compile the lists of persons to be killed should sit at the place where they did it and think of what happened to those who compiled the 1959 lists. [applause].

We cannot claim therefore that there is safety while we are planning to compile lists of persons to exterminate. The blood of President HABYARIMANA, Justin MUGENZI, Mathieu NGIRUMPATSE, KAREMERA, KABAGENI, NZIRORERA and the blood of M.R.N.D. members will not at all wipe off the Republic [applause]. My fear, and this is what I keep telling the people, is that if ever this blood was shed, they would not benefit from it, just like those who killed NDADAYE. [applause and comments].

I would also like to remind you that the U.N. Forces came here in 1960 and 1961 and have now come back, in response to the call of the same persons. It should be recalled that at that time, the opinions of Rwandan delegates to the U.N. did not count whereas the opinions of others were taken into consideration. Now, they have also started telling the U.N. soldiers that the M.R.N.D. is made up of Interahamwe who want to reduce the country to ashes. How can we destroy the country when we are the country! [applause and comments].

Another event we should remember from our past is that in 1959, some people neglected the people’s wish and enthroned someone behind the back of the Whites. They lied to the Whites that they had enthroned him under unclear circumstances. The same thing is happening today, some persons want to bring someone to power while the people are saying there is a problem. They should first stop these enthronements and seek first solutions to the problems plaguing the parties as pointed out by the President of the Republic. Those who object should refer the matter to the judiciary. [applause].

The situation at that time, it should be recalled, is that some persons reported that there were problems while some were saying there were no problems, that the only problem was the “White man.” What is funny is that we are now running to the “White man” whom we drove out in the past. Now, people are singing “there is no problem, the only problem is the M.R.N.D. and President HABYARIMANA as well as certain political parties who want to thwart the putting in place of the transitional broad-based institutions.”

Dear members, dear brothers, I am asking you to cast a glance at the past. You will realize that we are going through difficult moments and those who are dragging us into them are doing so deliberately. However, we do not see again some persons, the so-called intellectuals, this year 1994 and next year, drive away members of the population as was the case in 1959 and 1960 and tell them the U.N. will repatriate them. Similarly, we do not want the so-called intellectuals lie to the refugees that they are going to repatriate them, that they are going to take power by force, thus dragging them once again into a disastrous situation. That is not the type of peace we want. These so-called intellectuals who lie to the people, singing and shouting that they will bring democracy, that they are coming to overthrow the dictatorship while theirs is wearing us down even before they get to power, should no longer count on anything whatsoever. [applause].

Dear members and brothers, we believe that what could restore peace is for people to sit down together, discuss and share power effectively and equitably without having to kill one another. Indeed, they are preparing massacres and I said we left after we had accepted the Arusha Accords for the Rwandans to have peace, and we have acknowledged that up till now However, I should add that there is no law that compels any party to take part in the government, nor is there any law that forces any party to remain there. So, no dictatorship. We are seeking and working for peace. All MNRD members have set an objective that they will not cause trouble and would not like anyone to cause them any.

What can we say about people who went about telling the U.N. soldiers and the Representative of the Secretary General that the MNRD is getting ready for combat, that they are distributing weapons here and there, that we are carrying out military training every day and so forth… one would have the impression we are no longer working! These people will pay dearly for the rumors they are peddling, like the rumors in 1960 and 1961. During my last visit to the U.N., for one reason or the other, I went to look through the U.N. Archives regarding the 1960 and 1961 elections and found out that the current lies are the same as the ones of that period.

Do they want us to go back to the 1960 situation? Are today’s liars those of 1960? We think these lies should disappear. M.R.N.D. is on top of the list of political parties that supported the sending of U.N. forces. We told the U.N. forces that we would be the first to help them in accomplishing their mission and they would leave after the elections. We are reaffirming this position and we will help them. However, we are requesting them not to pay attention to people’s lies and not to be distracted by those who are saying that we are preparing attacks and massacres, whereas they are compiling lists of people to eliminate. We are asking these Forces not to be distracted and create any opening for those who are compiling lists while they are saying we are preparing bad things…so that they might not be aware of the real situation until it is already too late.

Dear members and brothers, we accepted the U.N. Force because the U.N. Security Council had made provisions for it. However, we are surprised by the reaction of our friends, the Inkotanyi with whom we are going to form the government, when they say they do not want this or that country and especially Togo.

Have you ever heard that Togo came to fight in Mutara or that it attacked anyone in this part of Africa? We accepted all countries. If they too want peace and if they have put a stop to dictatorship, they should accept that all countries be part of the U.N. peacekeeping force in this country.

With regard to the issue of security to which they often refer, this is only to distract the people. I told you about the lists that are being compiled. It would be good if these people, who spend their time in radio station studios trying to resolve disputes when they are not judges, trying to lead political parties that did not elect them, rather take care of the security of the population. They should look for those who are compiling these lists and if need be, get in touch with us so that we can show them who they are.

Dear members and brothers, it is getting late and I do not want to take your patience for granted. All I want to tell you is that today’s lesson is that you should cast a glance to the past and see that we are now at a crossroads in the history of our country and that the events of 1959, 1960 and 1961 that we went through are about to reoccur. If we do not adopt the right attitude, because [cough] like the Kamarampaka [referendum] which put an end to the U.N. mission in 1960 and 1961, another Kamarampaka [referendum] will put an end to the U.N. mission in 1993, 1994 and 1995. [applause]. I am not going to tell you how we are going to proceed with this Kamarampaka. The first Vice-Chairman KAREMERA reminded you that “you should never forget.” You will never forget that we are now at a crossroads and that the first U.N. mission left for the same reason the second U.N. mission will leave. Happy Sunday [applause].

[Song: our Movement, new formula, stay strong].

Speaker: Noël HITIMANA

It is half past three here in Kigali. All the events that took place today at Nyamirambo…! We did not stay long enough to record the Irindiro ballet so that you we can play the songs for you. Eh! You will be listening to the Irindiro ballet from time to time on your radio station, the R.T.L.M. The ballet has a variety of music, but we left the place while ballet members were still dancing and entertaining. Eh! They wore animal skin like our grandmothers in the past. They were well dressed. At times, our radio station, your radio, radio R.T.L.M. will be broadcasting your favorite programs and favorite topics from other sources. Moreover, someone has just phoned to ask me: “Why does MUGENZI not organize his own rallies and make such statements there?” I told him MUGENZI can express himself anywhere, he does not have to do it in a P.L. rally. He can speak in an M.R.N.D. rally just as in an M.D.R. rally if he is ever given the floor. MUGENZI has just raised questions. Those who are uncomfortable with MUGENZI should examine their conscience. That is the democratic game. That journalist was sad. I asked him too to search his conscience because MUGENZI told him all the truth. MUGENZI will tell them the truth and if they are not careful, he will reveal all their secrets because he knows them. He knows the Tutsis and the Hutus. MUGENZI is someone who can tell us to beware of so and so and he will say it. What else! Let us listen to the message of this pupil… is it not true that we are in a deadlock? If we are not in a deadlock, we could eat, sleep and be peaceful as before. In the past, we were told there was only one party, the M.R.N.D. However, I who have just spent more than twenty five years in Kigali, I have an idea. I used to leave Gikondo for Nyamirambo all night, without any problem. But once they talked of war breaking out and the advent of multiparty politics, I am telling you the truth and those in Kigali know this, it was no longer easy to move around at night. Nevertheless, we are looking for peace and we will achieve it through multiparty politics, the path we have charted for ourselves.

This child, MUBILIGI… [Happy New Year, General].

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Radio Libre on a thousand hills, great Radio station, Radio 106 broadcasting from Kigali. It is now thirty-five minutes past seven at Radio R.T.L.M. broadcasting from Kigali. Here is the news in Kinyarwanda, read to you by Kantano HABIMANA.

The M.R.N.D. party organized a rally today at Kigali Ville Préfecture and surrounding communes. The rally was quiet and peaceful. Among those who took the floor were obviously the M.R.N.D. party leaders at the national level. However, we can say that a certain Justin MUGENZI, the legally recognized Chairman of the P.L., made an impact there and was well acclaimed. He took the floor there. After other news items, in a short while, I will give him the floor and we are going to listen to him.

Then, the other highlight of the rally is the infiltration of Inkotanyi into the ranks of the M.R.N.D. The Inkotanyi beat an Interahamwe up and he fell unconscious, i.e. he went into coma. The other Interahamwe then took him to the hospital. But those who beat the man have been identified. The man who was attacked did not know what, happened to him.

At the hospital, he was introduced to a doctor. Wait a minute; let me try to remember his name. It is Doctor MUVUNYI, MUVUNYI who was on duty with his nurses. They refused to treat the injured man. “We cannot treat an Interahamwe,” they said. So that is how the rally went: quiet initially, and then, towards the end, this attack.

People are wondering how the Inkotanyi could infiltrate the ranks of another political party, and kill someone who was one of their members, on the grounds that he had joined the M.R.N.D. though he was a Tutsi.

We have received another news item from the P.D.I. party. The provisional executive committee of the Parti pour la Démocratie Islamique [P.D.I.], met in an extraordinary session. As indicated in the press release we have just received, the provisional executive committee of the P.D.I. met today under the leadership of the Deputy Coordinator, Sheikh Djuma KIBATA, at the request of the P.D.I. Coordinator, André SMAYA, who was unable to turn up.

The meeting was held at the Kigali Ville Préfecture office. Party representatives in the préfectures were invited there. After sharing their views on the items on the agenda, the provisional executive committee adopted the following resolutions:

First: All the illegal decisions formerly taken by the provisional executive committee are null and void.

Second: In view of the irregularities observed in the running of the executive committee, the meeting of the provisional executive committee decided to suspend the members of the said provisional executive committee [sic].

Third: Pending the outcome of the discussions of the members of the provisional executive committee of the P.D.I. on the candidate who will represent the party within the transitional National Assembly extended to the R.P.F., it was decided that they would meet on Tuesday, 18 January 1994 in an extraordinary meeting. P.D.I. representatives in the préfectures were urged to attend.

Actually, if you look closely at this press release, you will realize that P.D.I. party members have not yet agreed on the person to represent them within the National Assembly extended to the Inkotanyi … People have been chosen in such an irregular manner … some were chosen by their husbands or by their wives and that was accepted. Agreement has not yet been reached as to who will represent the P.D.I. within the Assembly. They can choose the candidate from the list published by the President of the Republic. They can remove a name and replace it with another. There is no doubt that the situation is still alarming especially after finding out about the R.P.F.-Inkotanyi’s trick.

It is not only the P.D.I. that discovered the R.P.F.-Inkotanyi’s gimmick, the P.L. also did. A certain Justin MUGENZI has taken a close look at the situation and found out that it was serious. Some people have promised to give power to the R.P.F. on a platter of gold. But Justin MUGENZI said “I, Justin MUGENZI, Chairman of the Parti Libéral, a party which I personally founded, I will not be one of those who will sell the Republic, one of those Hutus who will sell the Republic, one of those Hutus who will deliver the country to the R.P.F.-Inkotanyi. Please listen to the speech he made during an M.R.N.D. rally. But that does not mean he has joined the M.R.N.D. The Parti Libéral is an independent party. He was given the floor and he courageously made his speech. Let us listen to him!

Speaker: Justin MUGENZI, P.L. Chairman

We have been listening to several radio stations. The P.L. is said to be impeding the putting in place of transitional institutions…

Speaker: Noël HITIMANA

It is twenty-five minutes past nine here in our studio in Kigali, precisely twenty seconds to nine twenty five. Yes, here in Kigali, you have just listened to Justin MUGENZI on your R.T.L.M. radio station. I was telling you that a certain radio station was about to air his message. I do not know what happened to them because, suddenly, they reported a technical hitch! Eh, eh. I laughed! I laughed because for me saying the truth should not affect good neighborliness. It was not a technical hitch! But as you have just, heard, MUGENZI told you that he took those men, the NGANGOs, the TWANGIRAMUNGUs and others all the way to Brussels, Hum? He ate the money. “I took them to Brussels where they met with the Inkotanyi.” Since then, the Inkotanyi have agreed to negotiate with us in order to put an end to the war. It is I, MUGENZI, who did it; it is me who led them. You wilt realize therefore that…

That people turned against this man and said they would not cooperate with him even though he led them to the negotiating table is a political maneuver. Let them go ahead with those maneuvers; that is their business! Some persons have chosen to join the team playing on the field while others preferred to play outside the field. He [MUGENZI] has decided to play on the field. Are you wondering why? And MUGENZI replied: “At one point, these issues were raised before the U.N. The U.N. delegation is here in Kigali. And MUGENZI went on “I raised these issues before the U.N. We invited the U.N. in order to reconcile us, so that within our party, we could iron out our differences.”

What happened? The U.N. team itself came here and they are still around. They brought us together with Lando in order to reconcile us, so that we could iron out our differences but Lando banged the door and left…” A participant at the meeting pinched me and told me: “You [MUGENZI] have just scored a goal, a superb goal” and I [MUGENZI] replied: “Why should I not continue on that track since I have been scoring goals?” Yesterday, I [journalist] learnt that he [MUGENZI] scored another goal. They should explain things to one another so that they know where they went wrong; they should refrain especially from saying publicly that the organization of this congress that the notary public did not want to approve was a mistake. Hum? He [LANDO] confessed that they made mistakes.

How, as a politician, how can, you invite an entire country’s population to hold a congress and elect its representatives and later claim that the money was wasted, that you were mistaken? That is the serious mistake Lando made. Let him repent! And if he falls a victim thereof, he must have made it anyway, on the radio. [A short break]

Speaker: Justin MUGENZI

…list of your parliamentarians. I have sent him the list. He will submit it to the President of the Republic in writing.

End of Side A.

Side B

Speaker: André NTAGERURA, Minister of Transport and Communications

…I am not talking about M.R.N.D. ministers only I am talking about P.L. ministers and PDC minister. Others will follow. We asked her to promptly convene a cabinet meeting to look closely, wisely and impartially into the problems facing our country.

What are the problems? This lady, whom we all respect at any rate, I mean we members of the government she is leading, until she tells us she is resigning, we are determined to do so. The lady enumerated the problems.

She said security was inadequate in the country.

She said the country’s economy was in a bad shape.

After all of that, she is looking for a scapegoat in the President of the Republic, saying that he has the solution. What happened to the magic solutions they were talking about? Are they not good? If they are not good, they should invent others. We told her that the remedy is within the government. We asked her not to keep the problems to herself. The problems are the country’s. They should be resolved by the government

Among the problems she was determined to solve when she took the oath was insecurity. She took the oath to restore security but she has failed. If she failed, she should convene a cabinet meeting. We have a minister of defense; we have a minister [applause] of the interior. The P.L. has the minister of justice. But this lady did not convene them though that is part of her duties. Who is making the security situation worse? It is the person who should coordinate government’s action. It is Mrs. Agathe UWILINGIYIMANA [applause]. Let her stop looking for the cause elsewhere, where there are no problems. We are determined to help her; she should come close to us. She should listen to us. A word is enough for the wise! [applause].

Dear Members,

With regard to the country’s economy, when she realized that the problems were getting complicated, she was afraid to notify the government because there are some people she fears or does not want to listen to She rather said that teachers did not receive their salaries because a new government was not in place.

Article 8 of the Arusha Accord is however there. If she knows how to read, she should be aware of it. If she has good advisers [we wonder if her advisers went to school but we cannot tell], she should convene a meeting of the government in place.

If teachers did not receive their salaries in December, it is not because the government was not in place. The government was in place in early December. If that is what she wants, she should stop telling lies to the population and tell the truth.

There is also the issue of the annual salary bonus for the month of January. The Minister of Finance, in collaboration with the Minister of Planning prepared it. She should convene a meeting so that we could consider this annual salary bonus and see if the money is available, unless the Minister of Finance who has been working together with her said the money is longer available. She should say so; she should show it instead of telling lies about the President of the Republic.

Dear Members,

This document is long; I cannot say more about it here. You will have it and read it I am sure you will understand it.

I would also like to tell you that this woman, this lady [laughter], is doing all she can to divide our ministers, whereas they are Interahamwe.

We have done all we can but with the warped machinations in Arusha and here in Kigali within the parties that you know, they want to get rid of some of you There is no problem, the M.R.N.D. accepted it. But the Prime Minister took the microphone and said some of you have been wronged, that certain individuals cannot work, cannot take part in the government council because they have been sacked. She is mistaken. There are nine of us and we are all Interahamwe. [applause and comments]. We will continue to work together; we will cooperate, whether we are within the government or without. We will continue to work together with other ministers who are increasingly associating with us and who understand that we are pursuing the same objective.

They are saying they will expel the M.R.N.D. people. Can they expel us? [applause and comments]. That will not be possible. If they expel us from government they will find us in business [applause and comments]. If they expel us from government they will find us in the university [applause and comments]. If they expel from government they will find us in agriculture [applause and comments]. How will they go about it? It is not possible. We will remain Interahamwe [applause].

Dear Members,

I would like, in conclusion, to say a word, but with the permission of the M.R.N.D. Chairman in Cyangugu. After browsing through the agenda, where he did not find his name, he gave me a message for you. Yesterday, we went to Kinyaga to sensitize the members to the objectives of the movement. They were already immersed in it, down to the small child. Did you not see that? [applause]. From the sucking baby to the old man, the M.R.N.D. is on top. [applause and comments].

We told them the current state of affairs. We showed them the problems certain individuals are causing this country. They understood and told us they were aware of all of that However, they told us that we were on the cutting edge. They support the war we are waging. They said if the need arises, we should “give the signal” and the entire Cyangugu population will be here. [applause and comments]. They asked us to thank all the M.R.N.D. leaders and members. “Take heart and Happy New Year 1994,” they said.

Thank you and long life. [applause and comments].

Speaker: Noël HITIMANA

…R.T.L.M., in fifteen minutes, it will be three o’ clock here in Kigali. Today, we have spent the day together and had discussions. You have heard those who love their party, M.R.N.D., and those who do not like it yes, those who do not like it. You know that here in Rwanda, the M.R.N.D. is a party made up of Hutus, Twas and Tutsis. It is a party that promotes peace and unity. Any person who does not seek peace and unity cannot be admitted. Perhaps that person is looking for war…but in fact, I do not know where that will lead any person looking for war in this country. Even the Inkotanyi who wanted war have failed and they have gone to Arusha … for negotiations. Hum? At last, they returned home. I told you they are going to enter into other negotiations.- Hum? [sic] I told you that we were expecting other agreements to be signed here in Kigali but you have heard the President of the Republic saying that these agreements are ready and between now and Thursday the 20h, barring unforeseeable circumstances, the agreements will be signed and people will take the oath. I think we are moving close to a settlement.

It is in this context that the Chairman of the Parti Libéral [P.L.], Justin MUGENZI stated: “We have always, within the P.L., my colleagues and I Justin MUGENZI, the Legal

Representative, Chairman and one of the party founders, been law-abiding.” Let us listen to him!

Speaker: Justin MUGENZI

…He cannot make the mistake of suspending the organs [of power] of his own accord, without reason. The P.L. is not an enemy of Rwanda, all the party is doing, [applause and comments], all P.L.’s action is geared towards development and if I can talk to you about it briefly, you will see that the P.L. has never stopped and will never stop to support the country in staying on the path charted by the founding fathers, the path of peace, unity and development [applause and comments].

I want to talk about the accusation often leveled against us by the Prime Minister, Mrs. Agathe UWILINGIYIMANA, supported by the Prime Minister of the broad-based government, Mr. Faustin TWAGIRAMUNGU. They say it is the P.L. that delayed the establishment of these institutions by producing two lists of parliamentarians. Let me tell you clearly that it is rather Mrs. Agathe UWILINGIYIMANA and Faustin TWAGIRAMUNGU who delayed the process. And all that is being said about the P.L. and the President of the Republic and so on is nothing but a tissue of lies. [applause and comments]. But do you wonder why? [applause and comments].

The Prime Minister, Mrs. Agathe UWILINGIYIMANA wrote me a letter recently, and to the leaders of other political parties, asking us to give her the list of our parliamentarians.

The list was sent to her and when she wrote to forward the list to the President of the Republic, she sent two lists. Do not ask me where the second list came from! [applause and comments]. She then forwarded the two lists to the President saying that those were the lists of parliamentarians but that she had a problem with the P.L. which submitted two lists. It is as if she was asking the President to make a choice.

The following day, 27 December, there was a meeting of political parties presided over by the President of the Republic. At the meeting, it was decided that only the recognized leadership of the party is authorized to represent the party and it is the leadership that should submit the lists. Mrs. UWILINGIYIMANA found herself caught in the trap she had set for the President [applause and comments]. She then changed tactics and decided to refer the matter to a man called KAVARUGANDA, a sworn enemy of HABYARIMANA. But this time around, she was careful to send only one list and hid the one I had compiled whereas I was the Chairman of the Party. She sent a list compiled by people who do not have any connection with the party leadership; she then asked KAVARUGANDA to stamp the letter … list KAVARUGANDA stamped it and gave it back to her Mrs. UWILINGIYIMANA was no longer happy because the list bore the seal, of the President of the Constitutional Court. And so the lie was exposed.

KAVARUGANDA [applause] gave back to the Prime Minister the list she had given him, without any form of proceedings, without comments, without even giving her back the two lists as she had done to the President of the Republic. She did not even say: “I had sent to you two lists and this is the one that was chosen!” In conclusion, she said the

President of the Supreme Court [sic] has approved the list. This is the lie, a shameless lie. [applause and comments].

But we do not want any petty quarrel. Among the laws governing our country, there are some that were not amended in Arusha, including the law on political parties. Article 28 gives any member of a political party or other interested person, the Prosecutor or the Prosecutor’s Office the liberty to lodge a complaint with the Tribunal of First Instance and annul any decision taken by the party leadership. But it is not stipulated anywhere that a Prime Minister can contradict a political party leader who took a decision.

The decision taken by the party leadership was in accordance with Article 56 of our statute, which states that any act or document drafted in the name of the party shall not be valid unless signed the Chairman. [applause and comments].

The Prime Minister has all these laws in her possession. She also has experienced advisors in this area who are supposed to have explained everything to her so that she would understand that she does not have any right to change the decision taken by a party leader acting on behalf of his party. She does not have any right.

I advised her to go and see the Prosecutor so that he could apply Article 28 and thus ask the Tribunal to annul the list of parliamentarians elected by the P.L., and get the parliamentarians wanted by TWAGIRAMUNGU elected. Since TWAGIRAMUNGU is not a P.L. member, he cannot nominate our parliamentarians. [applause and comments].

You have seen or heard in the document read to you by the party Vice-Chairman what TWAGIRAMUNGU, NZAMURAMBAHO and NAYINZIRA wrote. This document shows that these people are preoccupied first and foremost by what may be called “balance of political power.” That balance was achieved in Arusha and I was not there. [applause and comments]. The balance is for NAYINZIRA, NGULINZIRA, NSENGIYAREMYE, NDASINGWA [applause and comments] and BIZIMUNGU [applause and comments]. I do not know this balance; I never discussed or signed it. The balance should not cause a stalemate under the P.L.’s label. P.L. does not have a hand in it; I never signed an agreement with those people [applause and comments].

Someone may think, since NDASINGWA was in Arusha, he would have signed those things. But NDASINGWA went to Arusha as a representative of the Government, and not as a P.L. delegate. [applause and comments] People should not mix things up. If NDASINGWA, NAYINZIRA and BIZIMUNGU approved those things, well, P.L. did not make any commitment.

That is why we in the P.L. decided that independence is the political line to tow. We are clear-sighted and we are first and foremost after the interest of the party.

If “political balance” means a small group of political parties that will occupy the fifteen ministerial posts and take decisions anyhow, then the P.L. cannot subscribe to that kind of things. [applause and comments].

If “political balance” means people rallying round the Inkotanyi in order to occupy the forty-five posts in the Parliament, so that, when they want to change the Arusha Accords, they will use the forty-two MPs to vote those things, then the P.L. cannot sign that kind of things. [applause and comments].

The P.L. wants to protect the sovereignty the people acquired during the 1959 revolution. [applause and comments].

That should be clear, because it is written in the Bible: “Woe, woe, woe,” woe betide whom? [applause and comments]. Woe betide those who flout the rights of the people, those who want to please the Inkotanyi by flouting the rights for which the population suffered so much. Woe betide them. [applause and comments].

People often say that the “Parti Liberal,” that Justin MUGENZI led a delegation of political parties to Brussels in order to discuss with the Inkotanyi. It is true, I led them, but why? You can see where I was going with them. I achieved my objective. [applause and comments]. I led to Brussels in order to discuss with the Inkotanyi and ask them to lay down their arms, accept political dialogue, and come and sit around the same table and try to see together how we can put an end to the war. And we achieved this objective. Later, it will be written in the Rwandan history that the P.L. saved the country from a war [applause and comments]. We did not go to Brussels to have a balance of political power in order to overthrow the regime in favor of the Inkotanyi and all those on their payroll. The P.L. will not support any political party that wants to take power… through means that are not democratic i.e. through the ballot box. [applause and comments].

Another thing, there have been rumors for a long time that MUGENZI turned down the negotiations. The letter we read spoke also of negotiations with the opponents whereas the opponents have on several occasions asked for negotiations. That too is a lie. It is true that they wanted negotiations but on enemy territory. How can I enter into negotiations with a mediator like NDASINGWA, NZAMURAMBAHO or NAYINZIRA? [applause and comments]. My vehement refusal led to the intervention of impartial mediators like a Representative of the United Nations Secretary General, a Representative of the O.A.U. Secretary General and a Representative of the Tunisian Ambassador to Rwanda.

These personalities are all celebrities! [applause and comments]. They brought us together and asked us what the bone of contention was and why people were talking of two lists of MPs! I started explaining, showing with proofs that the list I submitted was the one that ought to be considered. I started speaking when NDASINGWA stood up and said he had not come for that, adding: “I did not come to hear overwhelming proofs.” He was asked to be patient and listen to the explanations I was going to give and then he too would have the time to respond. But he refused completely, banged the door and left

[inaudible] [applause, comments and laughter]. Someone told me: “That is a beautiful goal you have just scored.” [applause and comments].

If there are issues within the P.L. that delayed the putting in place of government institutions as claimed by the two Prime Ministers, if those issues are not resolved by the United Nations, who will resolve them? If they are not resolved by the O.A.U., who will resolve them?

These issues brought in the same mediator who sponsored the Arusha Accords, i.e. the President of Tanzania. Where are we going to find another?

I think we have realized that the unrelenting intrigues of political parties will plunge the country into the abyss. They should accept and come, I go along with what the President of the Republic said that leaders of registered political parties should submit their lists of Ministers, MPs, and party members who are not happy with that decision should go to Nyamirambo to lodge their complaints with the Tribunal. [applause and comments]. Thank you [applause and comments]. [inaudible].

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

…You have heard that they beat up an Interahamwe; he fell on the ground. Again, they went into hiding and what did Unamir do? Did it at least protect that person abducted by the Inkotanyi ? Did it protect the Interahamwe against the Inkotanyi ? It merely said

“Well… the situation is calm.” A few minutes later, a helicopter came to land and then took a commander on board. They left, saying that the operation had ended and everything was calm.

Yesterday, an M.R.N.D. vehicle went around announcing that a rally was going to be held. The Inkotanyi said the vehicle was carrying guns and grenades to Runda and they had to stop it at Nyabugogo in order to search it. The vehicle in question was going everywhere preaching peace and unity; Unamir soldiers followed and stopped it between two of their vehicles. They searched it thoroughly but found no trace of guns or grenades. Why do people go on calling the Interahamwe aggressors whereas the actual aggressors are those people who are saying there is war when there is peace?

Stay tuned to R.T.L.M. In five minutes, you will have the news in Kinyarwanda. [Two tracks of African music].

End of Tape.