Date of Transmission14 June 1994
Name of TapeK 7 62
SourceReporters Sans Frontières
Prosecution ExhibitP103/257
Name of TranscriberMarie Vianney Uwamahoro
Date of Transcription13 August 1999
Duration60 Minutes
Original PDF | Full Transcript (in Kinyarwanda)

R.T.L.M. Tape 0257—Extract

Extract 1

Speaker: Hassan NGEZE, Editor of Kangura Newspaper

There is another problem on the roads… it is said that all the persons… with a nice physiognomy are Tutsis. They have to chase this idea from their heads. This does not mean that all the people with a small nose are necessarily Tutsis. It happens that someone is arrested at the customs and shows his ID card with the inscription “Hutu.” However, because of his small nose or light skin, he is considered as a Tutsi and is accused of complicity and assaulted.

Therefore, Gahigi, once in front of the microphone, please explain to the population manning roadblocks that all those having a small nose, slender, with a light skin are not necessarily Tutsis. Otherwise, you will find that we, the Hutus, are killing other Hutus mistaking them for Tutsis, for Inyenzi. Where would we go like this? You arrest someone and ask him his ID card. You find that he is a Hutu. If you do not understand, go and see the conseiller and ask him, go and see the bourgmestre and ask him. In my view, this must be a priority and be absolutely respected on roadblocks.

Extract 2

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

What you said is clear and I don’t think I have much to add. What I would like to emphasize is that the R.P.F.’s tricks have to be unveiled. We should set up some sort of team to analyze them. Once unveiled, these tricks could be explained to the population so that people would not kill one another on the roadblock. These tricks would be brought to the attention of the army and other security personnel. For example, the fact that they marked people’s identity cards should be made known and politicians should explain this on the radio, so that if they see someone coming from the R.P.F.-controlled zone and whose picture in the identity card bears on the back the mark “FPR” or “R.P.F.” they could know that that person is unfortunate and that he is not the one who wrote this [on his card] and that he is not a member [of the R.P.F.]. This should be explained and made known. This matter of information is of paramount importance. If something is well explained, it must also be well implemented.

One more thing I want to say concerning these people who are being condemned because of their physical features, er as the Prime Minister pointed out “We know the enemy we are fighting with.” The fact that it is the R.P.F. Inkotanyi does not mean, even leaving aside those people who have the physical traits, that all Tutsis should be targeted just because they are Tutsis. Instead, we are fighting against the R.P.F. people, those who work for the R.P.F. Nobody should be condemned on the basis of his ethnicity. I think I can confirm what I have just said; a person should be condemned based on his actions rather than his ethnicity. [Because of] your actions, even if you are a typical Hutu with a big nose and big calves, and an R.P.F. member, you should be killed since you are an enemy. If you are a Tutsi with a small nose and you love your country, you should not be harmed for that reason. I strongly believe that nobody should be harmed because of his ethnicity. People should be condemned on the basis of their actions. After all, as we all know, Kanyarengwe and Bizimungu are Hutus, but they are the ones who exterminated Byumba and Ruhengeri inhabitants. No one should therefore be condemned on the basis of his ethnicity. He should be condemned on the basis of his actions. Let us not confuse the enemy with our neighbor or with a given ethnicity. We should know who the enemy is and fight him from his base.

I think we can stop this debate here. Concerning other political matters, Mr. Ngeze, I shall invite you either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow so that we can have a debate on the matters, now that you are in Kigali.) The topic of our discussion was the turn in the development of the war and the clear evidence that the R.P.F. is losing the war. You talked about this in detail and I will not repeat you. But what you said which people have to keep in mind is that the R.P.F. is using mercenaries it recruited from Burkina Faso and Sudan and to whom it is paying a lot of money. These mercenaries were recruited for a short period of time, which has now expired, and the R.P.F. is running out of funds.

The other thing that people can retain from what you said is that er, the recruitment exercise has run into difficulty. They can no longer recruit the youth from within the country because all Rwandans have understood what the R.P.F. is up to. It was recruiting the youth through some political parties which were still in the dark. [coughing] Rwandans have now known what the R.P.F. is; no longer can a Rwandan child join the R.P.F., knowing its true face knowing that the R.P.F. are not people but beasts.