Information
Date of Transmission31 March 1994
Name of TapeC.54/K 95
SourceMinistry of Information
Prosecution ExhibitP103/188
Name of TranslatorCharles Zikuliza
Date of Translation16 August 1995
QualityPoor
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0188

Side A

N.B.: A part which comprises sequence 1 and 2 on Side A was not well recorded and some words are inaudible.

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

…Recently, people said on R.T.L.M. that Bazivamo is an Inyenzi and when the latter’s child heard it he cried, [Inyenzi is a nickname given to R.P.F. members or to its accomplices]. The child wondered how his father could become an Inyenzi whereas the latter has made people lice their homes [laughter]. It is a pity to hear what people say about parents, especially when what is said is not true. So, child, you should not bother because your father is not an Inyenzi as the counselor of Giciye Commune said it on 24 March 1994. This was a meeting of reconciliation which gathered Semasaka Faustin, Sous-prefect of the Sous-prefecture of Kabaya; Hagumimvugo Isaac, Bourgmestre of Giciye Commune; Bazivamo Christophe, Homologous of the chief of IPV project; and Kuradusenge Thomas, who had quarreled with the Bourgmestre’s assistant [a Bourgmestre is an authority who governs a Commune which is territorial entity in Rwanda]. In that security meeting they thoroughly solved the problem. On the fourth line it is said that the people who are concerned with security found that what was broadcasted on R.T.L.M. was not true. That means that Bazivamo Christophe is not an Inyenzi. He was not at all sent by Twagiramungu and Mrs. Agathe. So, I hope that the child of Cyungo [A Commune of Byumba] is no longer worried. And that is the same for my children who think I am talking from inside a radio! They should know that we send our voices through the air thanks to Bazungu [the white people]. They should also compare the size of my body to that of a small radio [laughter] !

Ah! Ah! Heu! People have problems! Let me finish by the anger of the people from Muyira Commune, in Butare prefecture. They say they are harmed by those who should normally protect them. They say Mr. Niyongira Justin, born in Commune Muyira and working in MINIJUST [Ministry for Justice], in collaboration with Bazatoba Balthazar and Ruzindana Silas, who are traders living in Muyira, constitute a danger for Muyira Commune. Mr. Niyongira, who is a P.S.D. member, says he is the boss of all the prisons of Rwanda. In Muyira, P.S.D.-members kill people whenever they want because when they are taken to the court at Nyanza Mr. Niyongira protects them. And because the judges of the Well of Court fear Niyongira, they do whatever he asks them. Then when a case reaches the Court in Nyabisindu, Mr. Niyongira does what he wants with it. He [may be the writer of a letter] gives an account of people who were killed in the night of 17–18 September 1993. A man called Rutayinzwa Théobald, in collaboration with Muhinda Thadée, Mulindahabi Michel, Mudacumura Saruhara and others, killed three young boys from Nyakibungo Sector who are Habonimana Augustin, Ndagijimana Anasthase and Byumvuhore Samson. Those persons were caught near the road and when Counselor Rutaganzwa Théobald said those fugitives are Interahamwe [the militia of M.R.N.D. Party] since they originate from Nyakibungo Sector. He ordered to kill them and they were killed on the spot. That angered all the people because the counselor who was suspected was released from prison. They said to the Inspector of the Judiciary Police [IPJ in French] of Muyira Commune, the provisional Bourgmestre and all the employees of Nyabisindu Sous-prefecture that that was unbelievable. All those persons confirmed that the killers were the one already mentioned. But Niyongira rescued them once they were put in prison. And now people from Muyira Commune in Nyakibungo Sector cannot visit other people living other sectors because they say they underwent some injustice.

Another sad news item is that in the night of 11–12 March 1994, between 20:00 and 21:00, MP [Muhutu name] had a narrow escape; Mr. Niyongira had plotted against him. And when the killers were in limbo, Niyongira gave them 10.000. So people say Niyongira is to be blamed because he moves from bars to bars saying that the prisoners will be set free as long as they are jailed in Rwanda. And they say Niyongira is a serious problem to the population. I hope the concerned person is listening to R.T.L.M. and I [Kantano] know that the people of Muyira also listen to R.T.L.M. There is also another case showing that Niyongira puts in prison some leaders, and gives privileges to people of his ethnic group or his party. And this creates disparity in a democratic country. You are still tuned to R.T.L.M., private radio broadcasting from Kigali. It is now 20:30 here in Kigali. You were with Habimana Kantano from 18:00 to 20:30. I am going to leave you with our French program since I need to quench my thirst. So stay tuned to R.T.L.M. up to 22:00. And I inform you that in between the French program you can hear some urgent announcements if there come any. There is always a Kinyarwanda announcer and if an urgent announcement arrives one broadcasts it. That is how R.T.L.M. was the first to announce the death of Katumba [a prominent member of C.D.R.’s militia]. So, stay tuned to R.T.L.M. up to the moment it signs off. Your radios should not go far from you and those who are capable can by 2 or 3. Today there is a radio which started to transmit on FM and people thought its aim was to sabotage us. [Kantano] think it is Radio France International which signed an agreement with Radio Rwanda and has started to send music on FM. So, I think it does not matter and they are not sabotaging us and it is not easy to sabotage us. So, your radio is still ok and it does not matter to have rival radios. We will keep on challenging them with better programs. Have a nice night you all, the young and the old. See you tomorrow.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

…You are tuned to R.T.L.M. It is 20:40 here in Kigali, 18:40 UTC. Good evening dear friends who are tuned to R.T.L.M., and welcome to this French program. This evening you are with Emmanuel RUCOGOZA and Philippe MBILIZI MULONDA. Our sound engineer is KAMANZI Laurent. Good evening one more time and first of all a remark:

Speaker: Emmanuel RUCOGOZA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

[Today is the] 132nd day today since the killings of Kirambo [An area in what was called a demilitarized zone between the R.P.F. and the Rwandan Army. It is in Ruhengeri prefecture]. We are still waiting for the results of the Unamir’s investigations. General Dallaire should work or else go away.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

The news headlines: - After the assassination of Katumba, a very prominent militant of C.D.R. at Biryogo. Stanislas Simbizi, member of the executive committee of that party has had a narrow escape.

  • 13 students of Nyanza, who form a brigade that is called Inziraguteba, will soon be enrolled by the R.P.F. [the name means “persons who are never late”]
  • It is not the R.P.F. which has to prevent C.D.R. from entering the transitional Parliament.
  • 12 Ministers have protested against dishonesty and political unconsciousness.
  • Our reflection of tonight is a look at socio-political and judiciary… [inaudible]. It will be developed by Georges and Gahigi.
Those were, dear listeners, the news headlines and let us start right now with the attempted coup against Mr. Stany SIMBIZI who is a member of the Executive Committee of C.D.R. [Coalition pour la Defence de la Republique]

Speaker: Emmanuel RUCOGOZA

The Patriotic Front has started a phase of physical elimination of persons who do not share his Machiavellian ideologies. That was declared by Mr. Stanislas SIMBIZI, member of the Executive Committee of the C.D.R. who has just had a narrow escape from an attempt. It has happened. Stanislas is telling us what has happened to him. He is interviewed by my colleague Philippe MBILIZI.

Speaker: Stanislas SIMBIZI, C.D.R. Chairman

Thank you, my friend Mbilizi. As I said at noon, the blow against Katumba was not a surprise. The R.P.F. has a program of killing all those who do not subscribe to its views. I have just had a narrow escape… After the assassination of Katumba we did what we could to take his corpse to Ruhengeri, where I am chairman of C.D.R. In the evening when I was at about 5 meters of my home, I found a “guy” who was chatting with a woman and another one who was talking to the soldiers of Kigali Camp because I live in its vicinity. The gendarmes who were accompanying me asked themselves questions about those persons. They called upon them to say who they were. One of them said he was a soldier. But when I looked at [inaudible], I found that it was not true. The man had been sacked on 26 March 1994.

The other one pretended to chat with his girlfriend [inaudible]. He all of a sudden decided to run away. The gendarmes wanted to shoot at him but as two of them were already running behind to capture him they were unable to do it. They simply shot in the air. Mr. Habyarimana [unknown] was not able to follow the other one who was already surrounded by the military trying to explain that he was acting in collusion with the woman. The woman denied. The military went… [inaudible]. When we searched the suspicious man, we discovered a letter dated on 30 March 1994 which threatened one of his colleagues who had been happy because the former had been sacked from the army. What surprised us is that when he saw his friend running away, he immediately lay down whereas no one had touched him. He did as if he was dead.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

Did he stay dead?

Speaker: Stanislas SIMBIZI

No. He did not stay dead. We took him in a vehicle of the gendarmerie. The population had beaten him, however, before the gendarmes arrived. That is why we were obliged to take him to hospital. And he stood up himself to talk to the physician.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

I have the impression that you have precisions (information) about the suspected person…

Speaker: Stanislas SIMBIZI

According to the evidences that we have, the suspect MSC was dismissed from the Rwandan Army RL n. 0574/MSC1.5.0 of 26 March 1994 […inaudible words] a way-bill n. 014/94. He had to leave the camp and go to Kibungo-Muhazi from Monday 28 March 1994 unity B.N. [Inaudible word] to join his native hill. His regimental number is 21040. His Name is Habimana. He is a simple soldier and he was born in Kibungo Prefecture. Muhazi Commune, Sector. [inaudible words] with which the military travel as civilians. This has not been the case. The way-bill has been signed by Major B.A.M. [Inaudible] Francois-Xavier. He pretends that he (inaudible words); it is in the letter he got from his friend. But when he put an ambush near my house, all the persons… [inaudible].

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

Yes. Mr.… Stanislas SIMBIZI. this has happened some hours after the assassination of one of your important militant Mr. Katumba. So, Mr. Stany what has been your reaction after Katumba’s assassination and what message can you tell your members about it and about the aborted coup that was prepared for you?

Speaker: Stanislas SIMBIZI

Thank you, Mbilizi. According to the information at our disposal, we are now in the phase of a systematic physical elimination. R.P.F.’’s plan says that C.D.R. wants violence. That is not true. There is no evidence about it. We have met R.P.F. and asked for the evidences about it but we did not get them. We talked to the Diplomatic Corps to know those evidences but we did not find. And R.P.F. undertakes such exactions to provoke C.D.R.-members. We have been informed that those who killed Katumba are R.P.F. soldiers who are members of the family living in the house from where the bullet was shot. I will not say their names because we have investigators. What I can add is that among the victims to become one finds principally Mr. Ngeze.

And we get this information from our informers who are in better position to know R.P.F.’s thoughts. I can also add that yesterday’s plot had to be carried out in every area of the town of Kigali. Unfortunately things did not happen the way R.P.F. wanted it. May be they will resume tonight and tomorrow.

I invite the militants of C.D.R.-members not to accept R.P.F.’s plans and not to indulge in bad actions because that would be giving it ways of taxing C.D.R. with criminality. Our party wants a peaceful cohabitation between the ethnic groups which are always in confrontation in Rwanda. And I hope that if R.P.F. made an effort, a peaceful cohabitation would be reached. It is absolutely necessary and it will be possible if persons with good grace put pressure to those who only advocate death in Rwanda. Thank you.

Speaker: Emmanuel RUCOGOZA

Assassinations and ethno-political violence happen so often nowadays in the town of Kigali. As a matter of fact, Ingabire Alphonse, alias Katumba, advisor of cab drivers at “Gare Routiere” [a bus station in Kigali] and active-member of C.D.R. has been harshly assassinated yesterday at Biryogo (a quarter in Kigali) around 21.45. He was chatting with a friend of his, not far from his house, when his head was crushed by a gunshot. All the people around rushed to their houses because they were panicky and the atmosphere was particularly gloomy. Katumba lived in Biryogo quarter which is made especially by dense spontaneous agglomerations. And some of its parts are less lit by electricity. On this same line of thought Kigali, the capital, is in an abnormal atmosphere. Some shops were closed and some others were desperately open. Motorists, pedestrians and other passengers have suspended their daily activities. Only monastic silence and calm prevail in the capital. One could read a strange attitude in the eyes of people: fear, disappointment, indignation and worry. All the taxis and mini-buses which are used to carry passengers have stopped their activities. People of Kigali, mainly those living in the suburbs, were perplexed.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

Thank you a lot Emmanuel Rocogoza. It is now 20:52, Kigali time. 13 students of Nyanza have just been enrolled by R.P.F. As a matter of fact, students from schools of Nyanza such as ESPANYA, COLLEGE CHRIST-ROI, ECOLE DES SCIENCES, ECOLE NORMALE DE NYANZA and ECOLE TECHNIQUE DES MLLES have just been enrolled by R.P.F. and are waiting for the departure to join it. To be more precise, dear listeners, it is a group of people called “Brigade lnziraguteba” which is made of the following students:

  • Rwakayiro Hackle, Coordinator of the brigade. 18 years and student at Espanya, P.O. Box 67. His code name in the R.P.F. will be Rwayitare.
  • Kabengera Jean Damascene. Secretary of the Brigade, 17 years and student at College Christ-Roi P.O. Box 61. His code name in the R.P.F. will be Rudasumbwa.
  • Rwandekwe Richard, Chief of Security and Discipline in the brigade, 18 years and student at Espanya. P.O. Box 67. His code name in the R.P.F. will be Karinganire
  • Rudahangarwa Egide. in charge of security, 18 years and student at ESM P.O. Box 30. His code name will be Rwayitare.
  • Ngabo Ange Regis, in charge of security, 17 years and student at École des Sciences de Nyanza P.O. Box 30. His code name will be Rugenda.
  • Duhirwe Gilbert, in charge of Finance, I3 years and student at École des Sciences de Nyanza P.O. Box 30. His code name will be Hirwa in the R.P.F.-Inkotanyi.
  • Nsengimana Jacques, in charge of sports. 18 years and student at Espanya P.O. Box 67. His code name will be Rugengwa.
  • Rugema Clement, in charge of information, 18 years and student at Christ-Roi, His code name will be Mucyo.
  • Manzi Prosper Robert, in charge of production, 18 years and student at Espanya. His code name is Migenzo
  • Bizimana Claude, is in charge of PMM [Political Mobilization and Propaganda], 17 years and student at École des Science de Nyanza P.O. Box 30. His code name in the R.P.F. will be Kasubutare.
  • Uwase Sabine, in charge of culture. 16 years and student at École Normale Primaire de Nyanza. Her code name is Munyenjishi.
  • Uwera Frida, in charge of enlistment, 17 years and student at École Technique des Fines, P.O. Box 13.[inaudible] Ruzigira.
  • Umuhoza Francoise. Junior in the Brigade says he does not know what junior means, student at École Technique des Sciences Sociales, P.O. Box 13. Her code name will Mukandengo.

So, dear listeners, you have noticed that these students are very young and that can be very dangerous. We have to say that this confirms sufficiently the information that was diffused on R.T.L.M. saying that the R.P.F. has infiltrated schools. This is even the case for University, mainly the faculty of law. That’s it! Soon in 30 minutes it will be 21 hours.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

R.P.F. does not want to hear about C.D.R.’s participation in the Transitional National Assembly. According to the R.P.F., C.D.R. [Coalition pour la Defence de la Republique] preaches violence and violates the political code and ethics. At this present time Faustin Twagiramungu [now prime minister of Rwanda and president of M.D.R. party], Lando [he was president of the Liberal Party and minister of labor. He was assassinated by the Rwandan Army] and other accomplices of R.P.F. pretend to be mediators between the latter and the President’s house on what they call C.D.R.-OBSTACLE at the Transitional National Assembly. Eleven Ministers of Agathe’s cabinet have said their opinion on the enrolment of C.D.R. in the National Transitional Assembly. We will come back to it. Let us first emphasize on the precisions that C.D.R. has issued about the R.P.F.’s accusations. The R.P.F. recognizes that it is the Committee for Unity and National Reconciliation provided for by the agreement protocol about power sharing in its 81st clause, signed on 9 January 1994 that will have to monitor that each political party respects the principles set forth in clause 80. That task is not, therefore. R.P.F.’s which accuses C.D.R., of having violated some of its principles. The R.P.F. has to be patient and submit its complaints to that commission instead of setting up for prosecutor and victim. Concerning the allegations of violence, C.D.R. party says that R.P.F. has nothing else to say except the demonstration of 21 March 1994. One can, therefore, say that the R.P.F. has not found anything to say about the arguments given by C.D.R. to refute all these accusations of violence. In a meeting chaired by Mr. Khan, Advisor of the U.N. Special Envoy on 24 March 1994. It is not, therefore, [inaudible] which has organized the killings of innocent people, tortured many women, children and the old and displaced more than 1 million people, the majority of whom having died of hunger, inclemencies and various shortcomings which can give lessons of peace and national reconciliation. Logically it is not C.D.R. which has to turn over a new leaf but it is rather the R.P.F. which has to give up its ideology of coming to power by force, violence and revenge. The R.P.F. is not at all qualified to demand the exclusion of C.D.R.-party of the Transitional National Assembly. It is rather the R.P.F. which has to be excluded since it has not at all given up committing crime.

I go on with this announcement. I think it is obvious that the R.P.F. will not accept that C.D.R. can join the National Assembly. But this goes beyond R.P.F.’s competence. C.D.R. has to enter this institution on the first day and in the same conditions as other political parties. We remind that C.D.R. signed the political code in order to enter the Transitional National Assembly but the RPR, which is an army rebellion has stood against that. It is also worth mentioning that on 28 March 1994, European Ambassadors and the representative of the mediator had legitimated the participation of C.D.R. in the transitional institutions.

Eleven ministers of the government refuse the ongoing silence which allows the R.P.F. to go on with its deeds with impunity. They say they support the entrance of C.D.R. in the transitional National Assembly as it is for other political forces and in line with the legal conditions found in articles 61, 80, 81 and 82 of the protocol about power-sharing signed in Arusha. This was said in the letter sent to Mrs. the Prime Minister. In the same letter one also talk of P.D.I. [may be “Parti Democrats Islamiste], and the restoration of order in the government’s action. The letter is written as follows:

Dear Sir, is with honor that we refer to our letters of 14 and 21 January 1994. Both letters were about the cabinet meeting. We ask you one more time to organize the cabinet meeting in which crucial problems that our country is now faced with will be tackled. As it was said in a report issued after the sessions of 25 and 27 February 1994 held between the president of the republic and political parties. the government…

End of Side A.

Side B

N.B. Side B starts with the continuation of the letter sent to Prime Minister Uwilingiyimana by the eleven ministers.

Speaker: Philippe MBILIZI

…the present government has to continue its activities, notably via cabinet meetings to face the problems that the country knows mainly in security matters. It has also to solve the problem related to the implementation of transitional institutions.” Following the statement that you yourself [Mrs. Uwilingiyimana] signed you convened a cabinet meeting on 29 February 1994, a meeting which had not been organized since 2 months. With this new conflict that resulted from the meeting of political parties represented in the government, and the president of the republic, one could hope that the cabinet was finally going to function normally and assume its responsibility in this very difficult period that our country is undergoing. Alas that seems not to be the case today as it is now almost a month that the cabinet has not met. What is astonishing in all this is that you go on speaking on behalf of the government whereas you have no mandate for that. The latest declarations were made on 24–25 March I994, They were about the installation of the broad-based transitional institutions, and on behalf of the government you took unfounded decisions on the case of MPS’s mandated by P.D.I. (Parti Democrate Islamique), M.D.R. (Mouvement Democrate Revolutionaire) and C.D.R. (Coalition pour la Defense de la Republique). you have, in fact, adopted and let known to the public a list of MPS of the Transitional National Assembly which excludes C.D.R.’s whereas the latter has respected all conditions required by the Arusha Peace Accord that you have yourself recognized [MP=--Member of parliament]. Furthermore, your list does not include an M.D.R.’s MP who won his case in justice following the provisional execution whereas you know well that when jurisdictions commands a provisional execution, the trial is executed notwithstanding any appeal. Finally, the list mentions a P.D.I. MP who has not been designated by his party’s organs which are entitled to do so. In this same line of thought and after the failure of the ceremonies marking the swearing-in of MPS at the Transitional National Assembly and the new cabinet on 25 March 1994, you met the R.P.F. in an attempt to find a solution to that impasse on behalf of the government whereas you had not consulted the latter beforehand. The signers of this letter insist once again so that the cabinet could meet without delay in order to put up clearly the government’s stand about this non-installation of the broad-based transitional institutions. An acceptable solution, to communicate to the R.P.F., will be found if only the government is associated to the decision-making on very complex and delicate matters. Such a solution will be reached via a consensus which is to be obtained after the deliberations of a veritable government. Yours faithfully. The signers are the following ministers:

  • Minister of Interior and Communal Development, Munyazesa Faustin
  • Minister of Higher Education, Scientific Research and Culture, Mbangura Daniel
  • Minister of Public Services, Mugiraneza Prosper
  • Minister of Family and Promotion of Women, Pauline Nyiramasuhuko
  • Minister of Justice, Agnes Ntamabyariro
  • Minister of Defense, Augustin Bizimana
  • Minister of Plan, Augustin Ngirabatware
  • Minister of Commerce, Industry and crafts, Mugenzi Justin
  • Minister of Health, Dr Casimir Bizimungu, now on mission
  • Minister of Environment and Tourism, Ruhumuliza Gaspard
  • Minister of Youth and Associations, Callixte Nzabonimana
  • Minister of Transport and Communication, Andre Ntagerura

You are still tuned to R.T.L.M., a private radio which transmits on magic frequencies 106.4 & 94.3, the sympathetic radio. In the minutes which follow our reflection, I am going to ask Kamanzi (R.T.L.M. sound-engineer) to disclose to you one of his musical secrets. [music]

…cannot rally the army. And Kamanzi tells me it is going to be warm tonight. We still have something like 40 minutes of entertainment and information via R.T.L.M. [Radio Television Libre des Mines Collines].

Since the signature of the Arusha Peace Agreement on 4 August 1994, the conventions encounter obstacles continually. The last problem to occur is the one related to the entrance of C.D.R. in the National Transitional Assembly, This last problem explains one more time the difficulty of, putting the Arusha Accord into practice. The accords, as everyone knows, concerns mainly the Rwandan population who paradoxically have not been consulted during the negotiations. It seems that every time when the population want, through the parties who have signed the accord, to find themselves in those texts, by pointing out some questions; these do not find satisfactory answers. That is how there is a political impasse born from the divisions which are observable in the parties’ executive committees. As a matter of fact, the basis of those parties [the members] have realized that their representatives were not meeting their profound aspiration& That explains the animosity directed towards opposition leaders such as the Designated Prime Minister of the broad-based transitional government [Prime Minister Faustin Twagiramungu]. Things were totally different on the day of the signature of Arusha Peace Accord. Occidental countries believed in the opposition and the population had no clear idea about the UP. Here in the country, one doubts the viability of those accords and their application seems to be difficult, and even uncertain, because the opinion says the R.P.F. does not want peace and democracy but wants rather to come to power. With all the grievances which are attributed to those rebels who are said to have murdered and assassinated many people throughout the country, the unceasing refusal of the R.P.F. to sit in the chamber with C.D.R. MPS is explained by the fact that C.D.R. has been the first party to support all the Hunts and condemn whoever attempts to overtake power by means other than democratic. It is therefore, the only party which deigned to challenge the R.P.F. without fear. C.D.R. spares no effort to challenge the Feudo-Monarchists [R.P.F.]. With the R.P.F. in the Transitional National Assembly one foresees stormy debates with C.D.R. of course. And that is what R.P.F. avoids because it is afraid of contradictions. But what is worth précising, dear friends and listeners, is that the verification of the respect of conditions which are required by paragraph II of clause 61 of the accord protocol about power-sharing, a protocol, that the R.P.F. wants to take advantage from, has already been done at Arusha. It even had to be done by negotiating parties as it is provided for by the last phrase of paragraph U, clause 61 of the mentioned protocol. That has been said by C.D.R.’s statement. When negotiations and the signing of the peace accord are over, one can no more talk of verification. Furthermore, there is no more negotiations among parties, we only have parties which have signed. Let us also remind you the following because the present conditions make C.D.R. to saying some truths which one might perhaps forget. It is not, therefore, an organization [R.P.F.] which has massacred several innocent civilians, tortured many women, children and the old, displaced more than one million, many of whom died of hunger, various inclemencies and privations, which can give lessons of pacification and national reconciliation. Yes, C.D.R. says that it is accused of perpetrating acts of violence in the country. On the contrary, this accusation has rather to press over the R.P.F. The latest assassinations accuse the R.P.F. once again. Let us wait for the investigations for further information. C.D.R. says that it is not it, therefore, which has violated the ethic code but rather the R.P.F. And despite the assassinations and the displacement of more than one million people, one has accepted that the R.P.F. can remain in the Assembly and be in the government! Why, why this would not be the case for C.D.R.? We also have to precise, as we have not yet said it, that 11 political parties have given support to C.D.R. so that the latter can join the Transitional National Assembly. They said it in these words:

“The parties which have signed the present declaration, want a strict respect of the Arusha Peace Agreement. They are conscious of the imperious necessity of restoring an everlasting peace in Rwanda. And since they are actuated by the spirit of equity, they declare to support the immediate and unconditional inclusion of C.D.R. in the Transitional National Assembly under the same terms and legal conditions than other political forces’ in accordance with clauses 61, 80, 81 and 82 of the agreement protocol about power-sharing signed in Arusha.”This has been signed by:

  • Mathieu Ngirumpatse, President of M.R.N.D.
  • Karemera Froduald and Dr Murego (M.D.R.)
  • Justin Mugenzi, President of P.L.
  • Munyarugerero Amiel, 2nd Vice-President of PDC
  • Mr.… Didace, member of the Executive Committee of PDC
  • Nyirahabimana Gaudence, President of MFBP
  • Nzeyimana Emmanuel, President of RTD
  • [Name uneven] (PPGR-RAMA RWANDA)
  • Butera Jean Baptiste (DECO)
  • Cheikh Kibata Juma, President of the Executive Committee of P.D.I. and Babuzinyire Juma
  • Nyasungira Jean Baptiste (FADER)
  • Bagabo Egide (PARERWA)

Dear listeners, in C.D.R.’s opinion, if one is credited with the death of thousands of persons or with the displacement of more than one million throughout the country many of whom have died of various inclemencies, one then has no lessons of pacification and national reconciliation to give to other parties, mainly to C.D.R. which has a lot of members.

The last obstacle to the setting up of the transitional government, if one can call it an obstacle, can even make people think. There is famine here, dysentery there, other economic problems and the sword which is suspended over the heads of politicians by the threats and ultimatum of the institutions of Bretonwood and those of the International Community. One asks oneself what is the future of Rwanda going to be like? Then some people have reflected aloud for you, dear listeners, and that is our tonight’s reflection. The ball is on your court, Gaspard Gahigi and George Ruggiu.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Gaspard Gahigi, good morning.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

Good morning George.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

It is a great honor for us to have our editor present here to reflect a little with us on the current problems and in fact on. how one can overcome. What makes us think that things have changed? With the attempt of setting up the transitional institutions, things will no longer be as they used to. And probably the Arusha Peace Accord will never be applied even if they are still with us. What would make us think that things have changed so far?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

It is perhaps a very difficult question. But I wanted to remind you, George, that the Arusha Peace Agreements were signed between the Rwandan Government and the Rwandan Patriotic Front. By the time of negotiations and by the time of signing the agreements, the government of Rwanda was lead by the opposition made up by the parties that you know. And the latter had signed a pact with the R.P.F. in Brussels in order to create a movement that they called “LES FORCES DEMOCRATIQUES POUR LE CHANGEMENT’’. As a matter of fact, nothing will be similar to the past because R.P.F. thought it was going to form a common block with the integrated opposition after the signing of those accords. The latter became aware that their partner [R.P.F.] did not show the look that it had offered before. And the internal opposition split up and that led to the blockade and I remind you that Mr.… Pasteur Bizimungu [current president of Rwanda], in a press conference held in Brussels on 18 January 1993, had declared that the R.P.F. was part of political parties who are fighting against the leaders in place in Rwanda That means M.D.R., P.L. and P.S.D. One understands, from this declaration that things have changed because those parties constitute no longer an internal branch of the R.P.F. That is really a start that people have to understand because people have understood the plans of the R.P.F.

Rwandans who were members of political parties which composed the internal opposition do no longer believe in the R.P.F. and do not want to share the ambitions of the latter,

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

Obviously a lot of things change; the R.P.F. is now isolated and threatens to resume war. Even if that war was not resumed right now, it would no longer be an aggressive war because we are expecting it and since a part of the country is now occupied. How then would we describe the hostilities?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

The hostilities, in any case, would be different because the R.P.F. occupies a part of the Rwandan territory and the R.P.F. is in Kigali thy that time a 600-man battalion of the R.P.F. was sent to Kigali to be part of the new Rwandan army which was agreed upon at Arusha and it has certainly or probably infiltrated many of its soldiers in urban centers. So, if the war is resumed, the population will not be able to flee as it did before because things will have started from the inside. The war will be different because the Rwandan population know now what R.P.F. is. That means it would, actually, be a total war. The population and the army would stand up together as one to fight against the R.P.F. And the war would start from the inside and perhaps it would cause lots of damages. But certainly and probably the R.P.F. would not lose war.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

It is true that there are people who said that they were going to occupy Kigali in one day, and up to now they have not been able to occupy Ruhengeri [another district of Rwanda]. One can ask oneself some question& As you have just pointed out, the enemy is now known, their collaborators are also known, some foreign allied to the R.P.F. are known. The R.P.F. has even begun to tell some of its European collaborators that now it does not understand anything about the Arusha Peace Accord. What is happening on the R.P.F.’s side? How can we understand that the R.P.F. is telling its western allies that they do not understand what the former want, that they are behind the times?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I sincerely believe that the R.P.F. is in desperate straits because in 1990 when it launched the attack, it bad a pretext of democratizing this country. Paradoxically, when they came they found that there were opposition parties in the country and there was a democratic game already. And the international community has begun to understand that the R.P.F. does not want to play the democratic game. The R.P.F. does not want free and democratic elections because it knows that it would lose. That is why the R.P.F. tries by all means and stratagems to come to power without resorting to democratic election. And that is why the R.P.F. had undertaken an immense propaganda to convince the International Community it is has initiated democracy. However, the international community and the internal opposition have now noticed that the R.P.F. does not want the democratic game at all. It wants to achieve power by force and trickery.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

Since the national and international opinion have noticed it, we have demanded the departure, for a long time of Prime Minister Mrs. Uwilingiyimana because her government was not working. With that hypothesis, which kind of government are we expecting? Are there party-members who are ready for alternation?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Concerning Mrs. Agathe Uwilingiyimana’s government, the latter has herself said that her government was not functioning but she always proclaims herself Prime Minister. For me this is a flagrant contradiction which is not just like a political personality that holds a rank of Prime Minister. And I sincerely think that if a government is not functioning the only thing one can do is to dismiss it. And I think all the states all over the world and all the citizens have the right to choose a government of their own. And there is no problem about dismissing that government because the latter has been set up by five parties which are part of it. They set it up after a meeting whereby they had decided that the post of Prime Minister was attributed to the M.D.R.… And those parties are capable of meeting once again to realize that that government is not competent and replace it by another. I think that is an act of courage that is worth doing because Rwandans cannot live without government That was the first point.

The second point is that Rwandans have not to be penalized because there is delay of installing the broad-based government, stipulated by the Arusha Peace Agreement. Then I think Rwandese people have to provide for a government capable of negotiating or renegotiating the Arusha Accord since the latter cannot be applicable. So, either the R.P.F. accepts that it has to really take part in the democratic game that is being played in this country and then a broad-based government involving the R.P.F. would be set up, or it refuses and then the people of Rwanda would provide themselves for another government while waiting for the R.P.F. to come and play fair.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

You were saying that one had to negotiate or re-negotiate the Arusha Peace Accord, what is the real problem provoked by those agreements?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

In fact the, Arusha Accord is centered on two main axis. The first axis was that of halting the war. The second, which is in my opinion, the main axis, was about power-sharing. You know, however, that the RPE does not want power-sharing. It wants to take it all as it wanted it when it launched the attack in 1990. Then, the principal problem of these accords is effectively the power that the R.P.F. wants entirely. And when you know the nature of the R.P.F. i.e. people who have organized in a politico-military party, who are descendants of feudo-monarchists who left the country in I959, then they come to re-conquer the power entirely and I think the people of Rwanda are not ready W give all of it. The people of Rwanda have perhaps been logical enough by accepting to share power with the R.P.F. 7f the people of Rwanda gave power to the R.P.F. that would be a counter-revolution of what happened 59 and I think the people would not accept it. And the signs augur that it is the splitting of internal parties because they have remarked that it was treason to enter into a compact with the R.P.F. and take power from M.R.N.D. Then those parties refused. Actually, the splitting of political parties such as M.D.R. and P.L., does not mean anything than the refusal of granting power to R.P.F. And Mugenzi Justin [president of P.L.-POWER] often repeats it. In any case, Rwandans are not yet ready to give the power to the R.P.F.

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU

Well, there is, therefore, a last problem and we had had an opportunity of tackling it. The international community had practically imposed the conclusion of the Arusha Accords. But now they are aware that they are not applicable. In fact these accords would be taken as an imposition of a foreign body on the population of Rwanda. Does the international committee feel that there is a radical change? And if ever those accords of Arusha were not effective, what would Rwanda get as support from the international community?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I think that at a certain point, we can understand, as far as international policy is concerned, the pressure that the international community has brought on the government of Rwanda and the R.P.F. in order to sign the Arusha Accord. It is quite understandable that one needed peace and one needed to put an end to the war. And now that those accords have been concluded and signed, the international community has had enough time and every needed explanation concerning the stake of this war. The reason behind this war, as it was declared by the R.P.F., was to democratize this country. I think that the international community has an obligation to bring pressure to bear on the R.P.F. so that it can accept to effectively play the democratic game. If this is not the case, Rwandans are able to refuse that foreign body. If ever the R.P.F. refuses to be part of the Rwandan community and act as Rwandan, it is the obligation of the international communities and Rwandans to refuse the anti-democratic game of the R.P.F. And I think that Rwanda should be efficient and dynamic in matters of foreign policy to tell the international community that those people they were supporting are not at all democrats but rather dictators.

End of Tape.