Name of TapeCE 79/95
Date of Transmission18 March 1994
SourceMinistry of Information
Prosecution ExhibitP103/171
Name of TranslatorLydie Mpambara
Date of Translation9 October 1996
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0171—Extract

Side A


Speaker: Gaudence NYIRAHABIMANA, President of the Movement of Women and Lower Orders (M.F.B.P.)

My name is Nyirahabimana Gaudence; I am the president [interruption]. There are two things that prevent the institutions from being set up. There is the truth that was untold at Arusha when they were sharing power. I gave some ideas to the people who were in Arusha, telling them that in reality, there are two parties, that the others are just a cover. I told them that they should share power between the two parties, M.R.N.D. and R.P.F., and after those two parties should divide between their respective supporters. So, peace should be recovered for ever. For they did not tat into account, that is why the institutions cannot be set up. All the Rwandans have also seen that the divisions that are within political parties are a fight between M.R.N.D. and R.P.F., some trying to depose the others, others trying to get support from M.R.N.D. Those calculations of saying that M.R.N.D.’s side has got many deputies and we have got few, or saying that M.R.N.D. has got many ministers while we R.P.F. have got few, those calculations are the ones that prevent the institutions from being settled. The second thing I can tell you is that now R.P.F. hopes to win and get the whole power. When attacking, R.P.F. attacks from the information from all the regions, from all the ethnic groups, even from the foreigners that are in the neighboring countries, R.P.F. has got two pretexts that can allow it to get the whole power: the interregional and the inter-ethnic divisions. All of you saw that, when attacking, R.P.F. produced the pretext of division between Bakiga and Banyenduga. You remember the trend saying that a Munyenduga and a Tutsi are the same, that someone from Gitarama and an Inkotanyi are the same. Do you think now that it is really the same thing? Another second point is that R.P.F. believes that it will cause troubles on an ethnic basis. So, it will help it to reach the capital Kigali. You really see that currently, R.P.F. wants to launch the ethnic war, killing Hutu officials who have got constructive ideas in order to accuse the Tutsis of that Then, Hutus will get angry and Hutus and Tutsis will exterminate each other. So, R.P.F. will alert the international community that the Tutsis have been exterminated while it is the one that started that. I rather ask the politicians to be careful with those two points for to enable the institutions to be set up. The example I would give…

End of Side A.

Side B


Speaker: Gaudence NYIRAHABIMANA

Landouard Ndasingwa, you know that they have solved the problem by sharing the power in two equal parts. Still, Landouard said: “I am going to ask those who sent me.” Who else, if not R.P.F.? “If they agree, I will agree.” Those who know Landouard Ndasingwa know that he is a man who does not practice ethnic-division. Even in his ministry, he has never dismissed any Hutu person just because he or belongs to the Hutu ethnic group. However, because R.P.F. is behind him, in order to endanger him and the group of Tutsis that support him, even the other Tutsis of Rwanda who know that Lando represents them. R.P.F. persists and hides behind him for people to say: “Now, it is clear the problem is a matter of ethnic groups.”

Speaker: Emmanuel NKOMATI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Mrs. Nyirahabimana Gaudence, according to you, what is the solution?

Speaker: Gaudence NYIRAHABIMANA

The solution of all the problems that besiege Rwanda is that the politicians should stop to “play the stomach’s politics.”[Means “to work for their interests.”] They should play politics but devoting themselves to the country. Like those ones who died, Gapyisi, Gatabazi, Bucyana… Like Mugenzi who had a narrow escape, those who are currently dying like deputy Safari, like Rwambuka. They should know that when you engage yourself in politics, you accept to die
or to live but you sacrifice yourself for the Rwandans. The other second point is that I can give examples of politicians in each political party that the Rwandans should follow and listen to. Even the party should follow the ideas of those people, the ideas that are not characterized by regional or ethnic division because that is the trap which Inkotanyi set for the politicians of Rwanda. In P.S.D., the man I see, of whom I really know that he loves the country, and that if the members of the party follow him, it would allow us to beat the Inkotanyi. It is the man named Uwibajije Sylvestre, the ambassador, that one who is the candidate to be the minister of MINITRAPE. In M.D.R., it is the man Karamira Froduald. In MR ND, it is the man Habyarimana Juvenal who often said: “Rwandans, the problem is not a matter of regions … nobody should be victim of being from Nduga, of being Tutsi. The problem is not the ethnic group.” In the party P.L., the man Mbonampeka. He is not characterized by greed. We had a conversation over the phone and he told me that he can waive to be the Speaker of the National Assembly, for the institutions to be set up, for the Inkotanyi not taking that as a pretext. Still, to give the ministry of Justice to the Inkotanyi or to that Lando’s group that wants it that much would also put us in troubles. Because even the Tutsis do not know why the Inkotanyi want that ministry, even the Hutus do not know. Except the Tutsis who lived abroad and Hutus who lived abroad and talked to Inkotanyi. They want to abolish the party C.D.R.; they want to abolish the side of M.D.R. power, P.L. power and the party MFBP that often says the truth. That can lead to serious troubles in the country and to combats inside the country. So, Tutsis should know why the Inkotanyi want that ministry and not be attached to it. Something else, Inkotanyi want to prevent the institutions from being set up, because they know that if the institutions are not set up, the financial aid given to Rwanda would not be given anymore. Then, soldiers would not be paid, workers would not be paid, there would be troubles among soldiers who would then attack civilians… That is a serious trap: The officials should accept to give away the ministries they are attached to except the Ministry of Justice and leave the ministries like MINICOMART, MINITRASO but keep the Ministry of Justice. Because if they give it away, it will bring disorder and also, preventing the institutions to be set up will also lead to other troubles because people will not be paid. I want the politicians to play high-level politics, politics that is not politics of stomach. I ask nothing else the politicians but sacrificing themselves for the country, not for ministries.

Speaker: Emmanuel NKOMATI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

You say that giving away the ministry of justice would not be right, that there is an enemy’s trap there. For you, which kind of trap is it?

Speaker: Gaudence NYIRAHABIMANA

Where the trap is, I already said it, that Inkotanyi want to [inaudible] the person in charge of that ministry, to order him to abolish C.D.R. and all other parties that do not share the ideas of Inkotanyi, under the pretext that they are practicing sex segregation, that they are dividing, that they are “power.” The other serious thing is that there are some crimes that cannot be forgiven, called “crimes against humanity.” The example I can give … even Hitler’s soldiers, when caught nowadays, are imprisoned. It is such a crime they committed. It is a crime against humanity. That means that Inkotanyi are planning to accuse the Head of State of what happened in 73 … like how Kayibanda died … And Lizinde will come to testify against him…that it is why they gave him the crown of deputy. Things like that. That is for the Rwandans to know why they want that ministry, to judge the Head of state, while he forgave the Inkotanyi and all those and guaranteed them international amnesty. Bringing troubles in the country. That is what the Inkotanyi want, in order to come to power. What I would like to add is give you an example to show you that the Rwandans must know that the problem is not of ethnic nature, even Tutsis have different opinions. The man you can ask who know it is a white man named Harroy, Jean Paul who was the resident of Rwanda and Burundi. There is a proverb he told the Inkotanyi when they were about to attack in Brussels. He said: “even if you attack Rwanda you will not take it because there are some Basindi and Bagesera Tutsis whom you killed at Rucunshu.” They know that old resentment. That is why they deceive each other when playing together. That is also the reason why Inkotanyi did not win the war because they play with Tutsis while they do not have the same opinions.

End of Tape.