Information
Date of Transmission23 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM 18
SourceChretien
Prosecution ExhibitP103/131
Name of TranslatorGaudance Mukakigeli
Date of Translation22 January 1996
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0131

Side A

Speaker: Valérie BEMERIKI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

…Never think, dream of coming back in the country. Now I want you to listen to that interview. In this commune of MBOGO, I not only met the population but also the authorities. I met the Bourgmester of this commune of Mbogo, given that the population. Hr was contesting him saying that he is not available. However, that day he had come to the communal office to attend a meeting. I would like him to present himself to our listeners before we continue the interview.”

Speaker: Vincent HAKIZIMANA, Bourgmester of Mbogo Commune

Thank you. My name is HAKIZIMANAA Vincent. I have been working as “Bourgmester” of Mbogo commune since May 1991.

Speaker: Valérie BEMERIKI

Now we are at the office of Mbogo commune where we arrived in the morning but you were not there. Can you tell us where your office, as Bourgmester of Mbogo commune, is?

Speaker: Vincent HAKIZIMANA

I couldn’t arrive here earlier because our car was delayed on the way. Today, I had to come with the “Subprefect” Iribanje Melchior. Usually, I stay in Rushashi where I carry out my functions as “Bourgmester.”

  • How did you go to Rushashi?
  • When the war broke out, I was in Rutongo. At 9, I succeeded in escaping from the enemy who was shooting at us and we were able to flee to Remera.
  • You fled due to which war? Is it this one recently resumed or the last one?
  • Since 8/2/93, I could no longer stay where I lived at the communal office because the enemy was near Mbogo commune. At that time, I fled to a place called Rutongo. Since then, I began working in Mbogo but living in Rutongo.
  • Did a part of the population stay in your commune at that time?
  • At that time, the population stayed there but not all of them because some bad fled to Kigali due to insecurity.
  • Why didn’t you stay with those who didn’t move from their commune?
  • We were afraid of the enemy’s acts as he was close to Mbogo commune. Only a small part of Tumba sector which borders on ours was not occupied by the enemy. It is so near that in the night he can come and kidnap you and do to you the same things as the ones he did in Bwisige commune, in the communes of Gisenyi and Ruhengeri prefectures.
  • Are there people here who were kidnapped after their return?
  • Nobody was kidnapped. But when you are “Bourgmester,” an authority you have to pay attention, otherwise they can kill you.
  • You have said that a meeting was planned today. Who were the participants? Which were its objectives? We have just learnt that it didn’t take place, can we know why?
  • It was a meeting for civil defense. This meeting has been held for the first time at the Kigali prefecture level, in Rushashi chaired by the prefect of Kigali “Prefecture,” Colonel Gasake who is in charge of civil defense in Kigali rural and Kigali Town Prefectures. They intent on visiting all communes to train the population how to defend themselves. ‘These acts of training the population how to defend and protect themselves so that they can really oppose the enemy, as you understand, this was the objective of this meeting even though it didn’t take place. Before you say how this situation is in your commune, could you please explain to our listeners why the meeting was postponed, given that the population is expressing its thirst for the training?
    The meeting is postponed because we haven’t been able to inform the participants in time because were informed very late. We heard about it yesterday in the meeting held at Rwankuba. This meeting was convened by the prefect, to welcome the important guests who had to visit the prefecture of Kigali. So, this meeting didn’t take place while the population needed it. We intend to hold it in the days to come. We really need this meeting because it is important for all the population to see how we can defend ourselves. In accordance with how you follow up the situation and following the recommendation of the Rwandan government that the population must defend itself, must be trained on bow to use guns, must be given guns to fight Inyenzi-Inkotanyi, in the commune you are responsible for, how far are you with these actions?
    I would say that these acts of civil defense in Mbogo commune have already started. There are several young men who now know how to use guns; they undergo daily training sessions. We have now a big number, so big that we can fight the enemy. The enemy can’t attack our commune. The administrative organs should examine the remaining problems so that our commune is strong enough and even be able to go to liberate neighboring communes occupied by the enemy.
  • Since you have told me that you don’t live here; that you live in Rushashi commune, how do you follow up these acts? How are they organized and supervised?
  • Normally at the commune there is a “conseiller” who assists me. Normally he is wont to replace me. But now that I notice that the necessity to do it myself, I found that it was necessary for me to come back in the commune and collaborate with others to maintain the security of Mbogo commune.
  • Does it mean that now you are decided to come back and live in your commune?
  • Exactly. And I wish that other Bourgmesters would do the same. I would invite them to come near their displaced people to help them in their entertainment as many are in remote places. I would ask those who are close to us to come and take care of then’ persons who took refuge in Mbogo commune?
  • Aside from those young men who participated, with pleasure, in the training sessions, what is the reaction of rest of the population about the idea of civil defense? Do they express their consent and their collaboration with the young men?
  • This is an important question because everybody would like to be trained. The young men are the first targeted but security is for everybody. All the population, elderly people, would like to participate to the extent that every one wants to have a gun except that this is not possible. We told them to take traditional weapons so that, they too, can help others in night patrols, on roadblocks; they don’t necessarily need to have guns. Even before in 1990, in 1991 roadblocks were set up yet people didn’t have modem weapons. We had traditional arms. Therefore, we would like to sensitize them on this issue so that they can know that they don’t need only guns to fight the enemy but that they can also use traditional arms.
  • Mister Bourgmester, in Mbogo commune you are responsible for, I noticed displaced people from neighboring communes of Byumba and Kigali Rural Prefecture, how is security of these displaced people? Doesn’t their big number disturb your commune and if yes in which way?
  • There are many refugees who came here but the big majority of them are from Kigali prefecture, from the neighboring Mugambazi and Rutongo communes. These are brothers; there are people with whom we lived together. Some went to houses of the inhabitants or to their relatives. Refugees from remote regions are here and there in classrooms, in public establishments. Others are survivors; they are not like refugees and in fact I would say that they are from Byumba. In French, one would call them “survivants” (in English it is survivors). Often this category of people continues its way to Gitarama or elsewhere. But we have a small number of them here from these prefectures. As for their security, in fact very often we don’t know very well these people; we would like to count them to know who they are. We would like to place them following their home sectors and communes so that they can know each other. We would also like to ask the authorities of their home communes to come and help us, as it was a habit before the war.
  • Since people fled in a big number, doesn’t this disturb the security of the population of this commune, you are responsible for?
  • It is true that in such a situation, the security of the population is disturbed because they don’t know refugees who join them. Sometimes there may be an enemy among the refugees; they may be afraid that among these refugees there may be people who work for the enemy or the enemy himself. This is the reason why the population is afraid. In addition, concerning food, very often they don’t have food. They eat what they find in Mbogo commune. About hygiene, because they live in a huddled way, there is little hygiene and this may cause epidemic diseases which accounts for the concern of the population.
  • About diseases, they themselves say that they are sick but that they don’t get medicines. Isn’t there any institution in charge of assisting the refugees in urgent matters especially in finding them medicines?
  • We submitted this issue concerning diseases and food to the highest levels. They told us that those who need this kind of assistance must go to Kamonyi in Gitarama to get medicines. But for those who are near, we have a dispensary in Bukoro, they go there for treatment but there is a shortage of medicines. It would be helpful if the government could provide us with any medicine.
  • How do you collaborate with the authorities, the Bourgmesters of the communes these people come from? Do these Bourgmesters come to visit them? How do you collaborate among yourselves as Bourgmesters?
  • This issue is under examination so that it can be solved very soon. But truly speaking, so far there is no collaboration because all the people are scattered here and there. Some Bourgmesters are in Gitarama; others are in Butare, in Ruhengeri and even Gisenyi. We would like to tell them to come back so that we can collaborate to improve the life conditions of this population and to fight the enemy who attacked us.
  • In fact, I noticed that there is security in the commune but the war has lasted almost two months. Is there any infiltration of Inyenzi-Inkotanyi in this commune?
  • In Mbogo commune there hasn’t been any infiltration of Inyenzi-Inkotanyi except that they shell a part of Kinzuzi sector. There are spies but now the population knows how to discover them. When they see them on roadblocks, as they are dispersed in the country, they take appropriate measures.
  • To close this interview, Excellency mister Bourgmester, do you have a message you would like to give to the population of Mbogo, you are responsible for?
  • I would like to ask the population of Mbogo commune to stand firm and continue their daily activities, then to ensure their security by going to roadblocks and doing night patrols. Following the instruction we gave them, I would like to ask them not to unjustly mistreat anyone. I would like to ask them to try to welcome their brothers who fled to them. I ask them to try to help them without doing them any harm. This is what I would like to ask them because these refugees have been the first target of the enemy who attacked us and what happened to them may also happen to us. However I would like to ask them to, be courageous, more vigilant to avoid the infiltration of enemy. The important thing I would like to ask them concerns security and to welcome the refugees who fled to us.
  • Do you think people man roadblocks the way it should be? When they see a vehicle they immediately open the road without having identified it. Did you give them strong instructions to the extent that they don’t obey them or could you repeat for them to know how to behave on roadblocks because the enemy infiltrates almost in many places and he has a lot of strategies; he keeps disguising; one time you can see him in a military vehicle of our soldiers; he has put on our uniform; do you happen to repeat this to people who man roadblocks?
  • There are problems on roadblocks but they will be corrected so that we can have serious roadblocks. We will put honest men, not people who look for money. In the days to come during this month of June and the coming months, we will insist on this thing. However, soldiers operating in this area congratulated the good functioning of roadblocks in Mbogo commune. They say that if all roadblocks in Rwanda function like the ones of Mbogo we can defeat the enemy. What you noticed, it is true that you saw them opening for you, I think that this is because they recognized you. Because they have started recognizing some people. They don’t open for people they don’t know.
  • What message can you give to the refugees who are in your commune?
  • I would like to ask them to be patient. They have to know that we have been attacked; that they have to collaborate with the population of Mbogo commune in maintaining security instead of thinking that their security will be ensured by the population of Mbogo commune; they should know that we have the same problem to fight the enemy. Therefore I ask them to help us to fight him; we will help them return home.

Speaker: Valérie BEMERIKI

Thank you, mister Bourgmester [break followed by music]

You are still tuning to Radio R.T.L.M., the time now is 17h32 in the “blindé” [note of the translator: by blindé the journalist means the studio] of R.T.L.M. Here I have an announcement, “I, MUKANTABANA Annonciata, I would like to inform Nzeyimana Aloys, Halindintwali cloys, Kinihira Jean Damascene, all them living in Cyangugu in Gafunzo commune that their elder brother Kayigemera Marini has been kidnapped by Inkotanyi on 116/1994 during the attack they launched in Kivugiza. This information also goes to Mister Ntirugirimbabazi Denys and his wife, Ntibisangwa Denys living in Ruhengeri and Camille Ukwigize, Ahobantegeye Marie Goretti who fled to Kibuye and Ndayambaje Anaclet, soldier hi the Rwandan Army wherever he may be on the battlefield… We have been living this wartime for two months. Many people say that they don’t have vehicles. Some have been looted by Inyenzi-Inkotanyi. Even when you have one it is difficult to find petrol. People also say that they are dispersed, they don’t see the prefect. They continue saying that some of them are in Kigali, in Nyarugenge commune. They come with hope that the prefect has his office in Kigali Town Prefecture but they don’t find him and they don’t know what to do. They don’t have a precise place where they can meet to put together their ideas. But the southern communes of Kigali Rural Prefecture are the most targeted by Inyenzi-Inkotanyi who committed there a lot of atrocities while killing the population. The survivors fled to other prefectures. But we have seen in some northern communes of Kigali Rural Prefecture, there are no Inkotanyi. The population is still at home. One can notice that ordinary life is still going on. It is not understandable that the Bourgmester, living near one of those communes undisturbed by Inkotanyi, didn’t at least try to flee to these communes. He instead fled to remote communes so that it is difficult to find him. Even the prefect doesn’t probably know the existence of this problem or that these Bourgmesters are here in town; that they didn’t go to other prefectures or to other remote communes. The prefect goes to these communes where the population didn’t flee. I told you that he convened meetings several times. Even tomorrow, as I told you, at 9h there is a meeting in Tare commune. The populations, the staff of the commune, the conseiller, the civil servants and the members of the communal security counsel, have to attend this meeting to examine together bow they can do things; how they can be trained for the civil defense. This means that a Bourgmester of commune captured by Inyenzi-Inkotanyi should go quickly to these communes that are not captured by Inyenzi because he may meet with the prefect and even the population because the population remained, especially that in some of these communes the Bourgmester flees while the population are still there and while nothing has happened. Such communes exist.

So if Bourgmesters are listening, they should go quickly to their communes and if possible they may gather themselves in one commune where there is security to try to put together their ideas and if the prefect needs them he may know where to find them and if they need him they may know where to meet him. But when they don’t meet to talk about it, one can’t know the whereabouts of the other. It is therefore understandable that these Bourgmesters should try to go to this commune where there is security to meet one another to see how to organize things. They can also examine together how to count refugees who went to other prefectures because such people fled in different directions but many are said to be in one place, maybe two or three and then they may go and count them. This is possible because when they gather refugees following their home prefectures and then in these prefectures they can gather them following their home communes and if possible each commune must place its people sector by sector. In this case, people can know one another and they can know a stranger who infiltrated. Thus doing, they can unveil Inyenzi who may infiltrate and who can bring weapons to shoot. Gathering people following prefecture, commune and sector also facilitates the counting of these people and people who are in remote places can be brought to communes neighboring their commune where there is security. Then you understand that Bourgmesters of these communes of Kigali where Inyenzi-Inkotanyi haven’t captured, where there is security, should try to meet. I told you that I arrived in these communes and found the population doing their ordinary activities. This means that Bourgmesters and Prefects should meet and go to communes where there is still security to examine problems prevailing in their communes and to notice how the population, you have heard of it, are enthusiastic to liberate their communes. This can’t easily be achieved when they are still scattered here and there. It is not understandable to organize people who are scattered. Similarly it is not possible to sensitize them on civil defense.

The time now is 17h… see you again. I wish you a nice evening.

Side B

Speaker: Georges RUGGIU, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

…Of course to all the displaced people who lost their homes.

My particular greeting goes to our soldiers, to all security agents, to the youths of parties and to volunteers who are on roadblocks, who are working.

Greeting also to all our doctors, to our nurses, all persons in charge of health care and who have worked a lot today. Today, we are on Sunday 5/6/94. We are always here in Kigali with you. For the population of Kigali, don’t be afraid of some sporadic shootings that you have heard this morning. We are doing a feast to Inyenzi. This feast is always on 5 June.

Tomorrow, landing and the landing you know what it means. It doesn’t mean that tomorrow we have or we haven’t something planned for all the people of Radio MUHABURA who also listen to us. It means that it is the period where we start reinforcing ourselves; that it is the period in which Rwandan people inwardly begin more and more to be conscious that R.P.F. is but manifestly a barbaric machine, a war machine and that more and more in Gitarama, Butare, here in Kigali and yesterday, people of Byumba, they too, have begun to structure themselves. The population is determined to fight Inyenzi-Inkotanyi and chase them from the country. It is true that it took time for everybody to mobilize oneself, for everybody to understand. But this mobilization is at its height. It has begun to give fruits.

Already yesterday again, it seems, again there ism confirmation to the news, but it seems that on the heights of Kigali they have captured one of the recoilless guns which was shooting at the town. The day before yesterday, three days ago, they captured a machine-gun which was shooting from Gisozi to Muhima. Hey! Continue in this way. Mobilize yourselves. Work, you the youth, everywhere in the country, come to work with your army. Come to work with your government to defend your country. If you don’t do it, where will you go?

Now we are going to leave you for a moment. Today we are on Sunday, 5 June. Before our colleague Habimana Kantano continues with our programs, enjoy this piece of music to give you courage for today’s work. (Music)

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

How are you this morning? We know you still have the same problems. Problems are many. But people say that patient person doesn’t get dirty. Continue being patient in few you will have found appropriate sanctions for Inyenzi-Inkotanyi. You are asking yourselves how the situation is in Kigali, this morning. In fact, the last night was calm except that around 4 AM Rwandan soldiers launched bombs to wake up Inkotanyi who were digging in cassava plantations in the surroundings of Kigali town.

This morning, fighting is still going on. The Rwandan soldiers continue their work of exterminating Inkotanyi scattered here in Kigali.

Some moments ago, I was late due to a small Inkotanyi captured in Kimisagara. It is a minor Inkotanyi aged 14. I don’t know whether he is not less than that. So Inkotanyi who may be in Gatsata or Gisozi were using this small dirty Inkotanyi with big ears who would come with a jerrican pretending to go to fetch water but he was observing the guns of our soldiers, where roadblocks are set and people on roadblocks and signal this after. It is clear therefore, we have been saying this for a long time, that this Inkotanyi’s tactic to use a child who doesn’t know their objective making him understand that they will pay him studies; that they will buy him a car and make him do for their war activities, parry ammunitions on the head for them. And give him a machine to shoot on the road any passenger while they have gone to dig out potatoes. Truly speaking it is unprecedented wickedness to use children during the war, because you know that a child doesn’t know anything. Then to take a child who knows nothing and use him for war purposes, for your interests known only to you. This is very sad. Last time we have also seen another small Inyenzi, street boy. You heard what he declared on Radio R.T.L.M. Maybe we will interview, in short moment, this one. And you will hear what he declares. Truly, it is a great pity to see Inkotanyi using kids to spy for them where the positions are.

There is also a young girl who was living with this small child. She succeeded in fleeing. She too was being used like that. She was feigning to be a prostitute making herself desired but with hidden intentions. To use people like these ones while you know that when they are captured they are ill-treated, is really a shame and even disgusting. But when you ask him what he was fighting for; what he is doing, you find that he knows nothing. It is like to take and rape a small child of 4 years old. We have been saying that Inkotanyi violate human rights. You can’t use any person in order to meet any of your goals, this is a shame. So, I think that to condemn the Inkotanyi’s wickedness of using children, small children, we can’t condemn them now because they have been using them for a long time You have always heard at the beginning of the war, about children they took out of schools and go to train them on how to use big guns called NYIRABARAJONGA but this is really a shame. This shows that Inkotanyi don’t have enough men. They only cause chaos because in fact, when people use children, women this means that they don’t have enough men. This has been observed where they captured Inkotanyi’s guns. The day before yesterday, they captured, at Rebero a recoilless gun. Because it is a big gun, they take five persons to use it and Inkotanyi go to fight the side. When you shoot, people think that at that place there are Inkotanyi but actually they aren’t. That big gun seized in Gisozi, it is obvious that very few people were guarding it. But when you hear the shooting of this big gun you can think that the place is unreachable because there are Inkotanyi.

It is like Gatsata which continues being an insult of Inkotanyi to the Rwandan soldiers. It is not understandable to see people deserting a small quarter like that one while there are no more than 10 Inkotanyi. I think this issue has to be examined at the army’s Headquarters. Young men from Gatsata have decided to go and liberate their quarter; the Interahamwe of Muhima is determined to go and liberate that quarter. There is no way people shouldn’t support them so that they can go to attack and chase that gun which always shoots on the road. It is not understandable how people can be blocked at Nyabugogo waiting for the soldiers’ assistance. The soldiers may back the civilians the important is to liberate their quarter instead of continuing to spend nights in garages, near Gatsata while their quarter and houses are there. It is sad and shameful to see that within two months Gatsata is seized by few Inkotanyi. I even saw a car coming there. Brave people should think of how to attack Gatsata so that we can see whether it is impossible to liberate it. So I hope that the Headquarters of the Rwandan army sees that Gatsata is an insult to the Rwandan army. Inkotanyi lean on this and say that they have taken petrol tanks. I don’t know whether they don’t empty them. This led people to ask themselves what was happening. Let’s hope that in few days Gatsata will be liberated.

Now there is fighting in Kivugiza. The Rwandan army wants to exterminate Inkotanyi who are there because they made themselves unshakable and occupied the classrooms beyond the cemetery. One can realize that they don’t want to quit this place but since early this morning, the Rwandan soldiers are fighting them.

Yesterday, I tried to visit the Rwandan army based in Nyamirambo. First of all I thank them for their warm welcome. Then I saw their equipment guns and ammunitions and this led me to conclude that there is no way we will not finish off Inkotanyi because when you consider the guns of Rwandan soldiers and those of Inkotanyi, you notice that they are far different. While the Rwandan soldiers bring ammunition in vehicles, Inkotanyi use people, Tutsi old men to carry ammunitions on the head in the night but they can’t carry the same quantity of ammunitions like that transported by cars. We have armored cars which run after Inkotanyi but Inkotanyi don’t have them. When you consider how armored cars shoot at Inkotanyi with a lot of bullets, you notice that Inkotanyi will be exterminated in this town. And consider our guns called “quadriliple.” I like saying this because once it shoots at Inkotanyi, you say “you got have them” because at one time, it releases one thousand bullets in an hour. I think that such a rain of bullets doesn’t spare Inkotanyi wherever they are. I think that the one who coughs diminishes his flu. If Inkotanyi continue behaving that way, we will finish them off.

In Gikondo, Inkotanyi continue shooting in the air with a small gun called MIRU. This no longer frightens any one. This small gun shoots here and there with small bullets but people have learnt how to catch them and avoid them to the extent that these bullets don’t have any effect.

It is also obvious that Inkotanyi continue bombing, to randomly kill people. I have just gone to see a place where they have shot a bomb. They think that they killed people but this bomb exploded in a compound of a house and entered deep in a whole which was there. I don’t know what they were using it for, the soil was soft. There was water. I went to see the hole and saw that bomb. But in fact people have come to know that it fell there due to the dogs which avoided it. They came running and people who have heard it blowing went to see. So I am not telling lies when I say that their bombs kill dogs and mice. Now they are not successful; even dogs avoided it, so they failed as a hole. If they want, Inkotanyi may come and I will go to show them. They will see that bomb in a hole without having killed anything, not even those dogs. So I think that what they call shelling, let them shell their mothers, is useless because it is hollow terrorism.

As for international news this morning it is said that the terrorist Museveni refused to attend the Nairobi meeting but he continued his visits in Scandinavian countries namely Denmark, Finland, these people give Museveni a big assistance but normally these countries don’t like to give military assistance. So he is looking for money and then he will give a part of it to Inkotanyi. But it is clear that this war costs a lot of money for his country. So he wants that they increase their assistance so that he can find some money to give to Inkotanyi. He refused to attend the Nairobi meeting convened by Arap Moi but this is not astonishing because that rebel Museveni is not in good terms with Arap Moi because Museveni has been sending Inkotanyi to attack the border between Kenya and Uganda. They even liked to close the border. In fact, Museveni is afraid of Arap Moi; they very much hate each other. There is no way Museveni could have attended the meeting convened by Arap Moi.

There is also Mobutu, Museveni knows him. He and his Inkotanyi made him sweat for a long time. They made him tired but the meetings he convened didn’t reach any good conclusions like the NSELE agreement and other places…

As for MWINYI, it is clear that he is not good terms with Inkotanyi because he now curses them. Remember the whole Arusha, how Tanzania spent a lot of money for Arusha Peace Talks. It is then obvious that Museveni is afraid of being asked why he is helping Inkotanyi while they were given a lot things in Arusha Peace Talks; they have got the power but, regardless of all this, they launched the war regardless. In fact it is clear that there is no way Museveni could have attended that meeting. But I think that in all this we shouldn’t expect miracles from foreign countries. Don’t rely much on the help from outside. I think that we shouldn’t expect much from the Nairobi meeting which should take place tomorrow but canceled; the same thing for O.A.U. meeting which will be held next week in Tunisia; we shouldn’t expect anything from these meetings because very often people don’t understand well the problems of Rwanda. In short, people don’t understand well problem. Therefore, we have to fight for ourselves, to solve our own problems. Any way, in Rwanda it is clear that Tutsis are members of Inyenzi-Inkotanyi group. I don’t mean all Tutsi because all Tutsis are not Inkotanyi ; there are some who don’t know what it means but a group of people who call themselves Inkotanyi, think that they must rule over Rwanda as Uganda is governed by Hima Museveni.

So they believe in this and say that since they have Museveni, he will help them to rule over Hutus. Since then Hutu have put their strength together and understand that Tutsi should abandon forever their thirst for power, I think that this is clear no foreigner will rule Rwanda for us. We rule ourselves in fully democracy. It is therefore clear that if one ethnic group in the country, makes itself inflexible while it constitutes the minority, the majority can’t run though out the world asking for help saying that the minority is going to exterminate them. This is foolishness and the international community can’t care about this. Now they say that if an ethnic group attacks you, fight and make them cool down and if they are stronger than you let them take the power. It is therefore understandable that it is impossible to see the minority Tutsi of about 8% won over Hutu and rule the country because they are helped by Museveni. This is the reason why [cut]

…get up, the government has to look for guns for us, we have to give our contribution to the army, to look for guns and ammunition to kill Inkotanyi any where they are and exterminate all the accomplices. And when we feel strong enough we can go, if necessary, to attack Uganda but we have mainly to blame those thieves of Burundi; those Tutsi who are in power in Burundi who support the Inkotanyi. The Inkotanyi went to the Burundi border so that Burundi soldiers can help them and give them equipment so that they can return to Burundi without being recognized but you heard that the day before yesterday when Minister had gone to Ntongwe, they killed an Inkotanyi called Desire, a Burundian. You understand that he had entered Rwanda through Ngenda from Kirundo. This was the aim of Inkotanyi. They wanted to be helped by Burundi. But those Burundians must understand that… first of all those Tutsi soldiers don’t have war experience. They only fought, shot and killed with unarmed Hutu civilians. They should know that if they continue helping Inkotanyi, we will attack them and we will pause after having reached Bujumbura and chased them from the power. This is how things will turn because what they are doing to us is not good. They should let us fight against Rwandan terrorist Tutsi but if they continue helping them, they will have a lot of troubles. Because we will attack those Burundian Tutsi soldiers. They didn’t fight anywhere so that if we shoot at them, they will run away. We have been fighting for 4 years. We know enough how to fight. If one day we attack and chase them away from Bujumbura they shouldn’t complain because they themselves will have provoked us. In any case in Rwanda we have right of pursuit. That is if you are attacked from outside your country, you have to pursue these attackers up to the end. So, if we use the right for pursuit and chase Burundi Tutsi from the power in Bujumbura they shouldn’t blame us because they would have created the situation.

In any case we are asking the Rwandan government to look for weapons for us. If possible we have to borrow or rent guns to us provided we kill Inkotanyi wherever they are in the country. Even Museveni, I don’t know whether when he will see 100 thousand strong young men getting up shooting here and there every one with thousand bullets, I think that Museveni can’t do anything if he sees such people getting up together to liberate their country. I think that what he will do is to take Inkotanyi with refugees and make them settle in ANKOLE because when people will become angry because of him we will not stop there before we reach MASAKA, where in former times RWABUGIRI spent the night. One hundred thousand young men must be recruited and get up together and then we will kill and exterminate Inkotanyi. Especially the reason why we will exterminate them is that they belong to one ethnic group. It is to look at the stature and physical appearance of a person. It is to look at the small nose and destroy it and then we will go to Kibungo, Rusumo and Ruhengeri everywhere. We will pause after having liberated our country. However it is not a secret, we are getting equipment in a big number. If the minority has got friends the majority can’t miss them. Equipment is coming in a satisfactory manner. Next week people will have them and then we will get up and if necessary we spend a year in the war fighting against Inkotanyi provided we exterminate Inkotanyi to make them understand forever that they are useless; they are no longer powerful; that they have been defeated.

This morning I can also say that the fearful persons have returned. Yesterday I went to meet them at Nyabugogo. Some returned aboard Toyota light motor-lorries, others returned on foot. They look everywhere; they look at someone and think him to be Inkotanyi. But they notice that it is a determined person waiting to kill Inkotanyi. They ask about the situation in their quarters. Some find that there is no problem in their quarters and they are no longer afraid because as we said it, we told them that if you go to Gitarama and Inkotanyi blow something you will go to Kibuye and in Kibuye, Inkotanyi will blow something then you will drop yourselves in Kivu lake because there will be no other place left. It is better for you to come and help us fight assiduously to protect our capital city because, in truth, Inkotanyi can’t capture the town without accomplices. No one in the world, the books say this, no one can do urban guerrilla without accomplices because it is impossible you can’t enter the town of people who hate you. Even when you enter in the night, if they see you during the day, only death awaits you because no one can applaud for you or thank you. It is then clear that even if Inkotanyi infiltrate in the night, they can have trouble in the day time because no one can give water and in fact to infiltrate in 100 thousand persons who hate you and waiting for you with pieces of wood, machetes with innumerable bullets. I think it is suicide to infiltrate you alone with your teeth and nose without accomplices to hide you; to carry for you a gun. I think that Inkotanyi will not do that. Let us defend our town, our capital Kigali but let’s do that while thinking of the whole country and then equipment will come and we will finish the Inkotanyi and make them return at Museveni’s as it is his wish.

You are still tuning to R.T.L.M., your private radio transmitting from Kigali…

After about the 10 we will distribute cards, on which it will be written “resistance” to people who remained in town. Each one will put his photo showing how he was manning the roadblock and then this photo will be a remembrance and even to future generation because he will say that he remained in the Rwanda capital when it was going to be captured; he saved the country. We will give others who will return after the 15, a false card allowing them to come back to town. But it will come to town privileges for example to get parcels and others things dedicated to town like getting electricity, telephone, the priority will be given to those who will have remained and fought for the town. These people will show the “resistance” cards and they will have priority over the one who will bring a dirty yellow card or of any other color. It is then clear that if I go to ask for a parcel in which to build a house they will consider the card of the resistant and he will take a big part in this town because it will be he who would have fought for it while others were fleeing.

On their turn the population of Gitarama is coming back to their town because they realized that to be frightened by exploding things can’t lead them anywhere. However sometimes a thunder explodes more than those bombs but so far I have seen people fleeing because of a thunder explosion. If people flee because of a rocket explosion, I think that they will continue fleeing because there are explosives everywhere. Now the journalists travel to see the situation as it is their duty. For me it clear that I am not used to traveling because I move in the quarter assuring people. Some people say that Kantano says what he has already recorded while he has already fled but after having spoken on the radio I pass in the quarter to talk to people. Meanwhile let me greet people of Muhima. On the roadblock situated down near Nyabugogo, I found people celebrating the two months spent on this roadblock. They had slaughtered a goat. Some of them told me that they looted it from Gatsata but I am not very sure. They had slaughtered and well grilled a he-goat with sauté green potatoes. They also had big three gourds of banana beer. We ate and drank. They said that roadblock is the best one. After that they gave every one on kilogram of porridge. This is really a good thing. This Muhima roadblock is Okay. I was saying that journalists travel and take note of the situation. Here in the studio of our radio. I have welcomed my colleague journalist usually called BERNARD MUKINGO. He is an important member and editor of KAMARAMPAKA newspaper. He visited many places. He will tell you how he saw the situation in places he visited. He went to Gitarama, to Ruhengeri; he went everywhere to see people. Especially because he is not afraid. He saw fearful people and he will tell you how he saw them. Hello BERNARD MUKINGO.

Speaker: Bernard MUKINGO, Editor of Kamarampaka Newspaper

Good morning, Kantano! I went to Ruhengeri, to Gitarama, to see the situation following the broadcasting of Radio MUHABURA. In fact, I arrived in Gitarama; it is true that there are fearful people who fled from Kigali. They arrived in Gitarama, because of their habit of fearing nothing, in fact there insecurity due to a huge crowd of people who are there. The place has become unlivable. At a certain time, two bombs exploded, Kantano, here we are familiar with that, and the whole Gitarama fled. I was, however, glad to see some people who are not familiar with that saying that they can’t always run, fleeing from nothing… They have set roadblocks and those who man them are determined to fight and defeat the enemy. Kantano, before those KATIYUSHA were thrown, I heard rumors. You know that I left here Nyamirambo the day after we defeated the enemy, but when I arrived in Gitarama I heard some people propagating rumors that Nyamirambo was captured. They even told this to me. This was a problem to me to hear that Nyamirambo was captured while the fighting took place when I was there. Therefore, these are mere rumors and people should avoid them. To hear that Inkotanyi are there, that there are coming. The authorities should condemn this in town because it is a problem. About the situation on roadblocks, population stands firm. They have started to gather themselves determined to fight the enemy instead of continuing to flee. Now in Gitarama, all of them stand well. Young men claim for more guns so that on the NDIZA hill, on roadblocks the situation is not good, two Inyenzi were arrested hiding and they were killed. They said that they have to fight the enemy instead of continuing to flee. We don’t want to hear some people from Kigali who inspire fear saying that the situation is hard. Now the population of Gitarama has begun to return home. We have to fight the enemy. On some roadblocks, for example in Karago, I thank people on Gasiza roadblock. On this roadblock, some people were going to unjustly mistreat people. Some people, thieves, looted things from a vehicle but the one who did it was given what he deserved. They immediately shot at him. They killed him saying that they didn’t want such a thing to happen on roadblock. This is a good thing. I profit by this occasion to tell people who fled from Kigali and who, when they arrive in communes, make themselves more important by mistreating the refugees that we don’t support this They should let people flee, for example women, and control the enemy because I also noticed the infiltration of the Inyenzi, among the refugees. But people who man roadblocks are vigilant because I saw a lot of Inyenzi they arrested.

Important Passage
Name of TranslatorLydie MPAMBARA
Date of Translation22 October 1996
Location0.1–2.7 Minutes

Side B

0.1 to 2.7

Hello to all the displaced people who have lost their homes, a quite special hello also to all our soldiers, to all the security agents, to all the youths of the parties and all the volunteers who are at roadblocks and who are working. Hello also to our doctors, to our nurses, to all the people who are in charge of health care and who must have worked a lot today. So, today, it is Sunday 5th June 1994, we are still in Kigali with you. For the population of Kigali, do not get afraid. The few firing you heard this morning, we are giving a good hiding to the Inyenzi and that hiding is today the 5th of June, tomorrow it is the landing. And the landing, you know what that means. So, that does not mean that tomorrow -for all the people of Radio Muhabura who are listening to us too, that does not mean that for tomorrow we have planned something or not. That means that it is the period during which we are starting to become stronger, during which the Rwandan population, in their heart of hearts is starting to realize more and more that R.P.F. is manifestly just a barbaric machine, a machine of war, when more and more in Gitarama, in Butare, here in Kigali, now and yesterday, the people of Byumba started also to take shape. The people are determined to present a united front against the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi and to drive them out the country. It is true that it took some time for everybody to mobilize, for everybody to realize. However, this mobilization is in full swing it already starts to bear fruit. Already yesterday, it seems that, it is an unconfirmed piece of news; it seems that on the top of Kigali, they caught a recoilless gun that was shelling at the town. The day before yesterday, three days ago, they captured a machine gun that was shelling from Gisozi toward Muhima. Well, go on, mobilize, work, you all the young people all over the country. Come and work with your Army, come to work with your government to defend your country, because if not, where will you go to?”