Information
Date of Transmission9 June 1994
Name of TapeRTLM/28
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/27
Name of TranslatorLydie Mpambara
Date of Translation10 June 1997
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0027

Side B

The beginning of this side is blank.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

14.9 minutes

…So, we are receiving in our studio a man named Ntahontuye Léonidas alias Micombero. He said: “Gahigi, I heard you inviting us. I have two suggestions which I think can help us to win this war. Businesspeople who have got money should give it out to purchase ammunition, weapons and other military equipment. For the judicial system, the intelligence service should work at a full extent.” Now, I want him to talk himself of those two suggestions. Ntahontuye Léonidas, I give you the floor to explain to us those two suggestions which you think can help us to win this war.”

Speaker: Léonidas NTAHONTUYE

Thank you Mr. Gahigi. Before talking of my suggestions which I think can be useful for Rwanda and its citizens, I thank your radio R.T.L.M. for the war it waged since the first and even the second government up to this interim government. The dedication you showed up to date is an important and unforgettable support for all the Rwandans. In fact, the way you lift the spirit of the Army, of the youth at the battlefield is really something important and unforgettable for the Rwandans. For myself, as I am here now in R.T.L.M. studio, I am from Kivugiza …That is where combat is taking place. I live with soldiers and we are always grateful for the way you lift our spirits when we are at the battlefield. As you just said it, I have two suggestions and another small one that I will add concerning the National Army. My first suggestion concerns businesspeople. You know that businesspeople possess the greatest part of our country’s wealth. Unfortunately, one can notice that most of the people who fled are businesspeople for they have got means of transportation. Some are now in hotels and others are staying with friends all over the country. Civilians who stayed are guarding their properties, soldiers are fighting …We are really sad to notice that they did not participate in this war. However, I cannot fail to thank some businesspeople who continued to buy food for the soldiers. Some businesspeople buy food for soldiers in such a way that to date soldiers continue to get food and drinks. Those deserve thanks. I will ask every other businessperson, whoever and wherever he is to make available a portion of his wealth. We know that they have got money in banks and that banks cannot reveal how much money is on their clients’ accounts. Still, I request that any businessperson should participate in the buying of guns and ammunition for the youth and the Army to get equipment to use. For me, any businessperson who would not play any role in this war would not be granted any importation or exportation license alter the war. They should not either be allowed to purchase deluxe vehicles if they did not prove to be dedicated during this war. We are fighting for ail the Rwandans. So, those businesspeople who possess the biggest portion of the country’s wealth should make it available. On that issue, I call all the businesspeople wherever they are …

I am not only talking of those of Kigali. I am talking of all the businesspeople in all our eleven préfectures. Every businessperson should prove his goodwill and really assist the Army by providing us with the necessary equipment we need at the battlefield.

The second point regards the judicial system. The day before yesterday, one lady talked about it and considering the current times, that gave me food for thought. You know that the country’s peace ‘hinges on the judicial system and the prosecutor’s office. So, we ask judges, tribunals and prosecutors’ offices to be made available as well as the central intelligence services of the Prime Minister’s office and of the Army. Those two central intelligence services, the civil and the military, will reveal to us who are the accomplices hiding among us. The civilian accomplices who put on sheep’s skin while they are actually hyenas. It is for that service to make them known. The military central intelligence service will reveal the accomplices and the cowards within the Army. Those services should start working seriously without fearing what people would think and make them (the accomplices) known. Then, prosecutors’ offices and tribunals will apply appropriate sentences to them. Something I wish not to happen again. Maybe it is just a mere wish …

It is that they never again declare that people are innocent in the course of judicial procedures. If there is evidence that somebody is an accomplice, that he is a traitor to the country, he should be given what he deserves. You saw where saying that people are innocent has led us. It came from saying that so-and-so is innocent. They would put on sheep’s skin while they are hyenas. The third and last point is related to the general staff of the Rwandan Army in the current times. I like to watch television or video films. Elsewhere exist soldiers to whom are assigned suicide missions. Those soldiers are characterized by the sense of sacrifice. I request that such a unit of soldiers to whom are given suicide-missions be created in Rwanda. Such a soldier would be granted an appropriated bonus because the mission assigned to him would be a matter of life or death. That soldier would go thinking: “If my mission is successful, I will get a substantial reward.” In the same context, I will request the current interim government to work with the general staff to set up such a unit. It is sad to hear that one Inyenzi has blocked the road in Musambira, while we have got intrepid soldiers who can go there and capture him without even using ammunition. Some of our soldiers learned what they call “unarmed combat.” They can go there in civilian clothes and capture him. That is what I ask the general staff …To allow soldiers…We have got some with goodwill…They should be given a mission and go …I am sure that there are soldiers with goodwill who say: “Even if we were only one platoon, we could take back Rebero in one day.” If such people exist, the general staff with the help of the interim government should set up such a unit. Thank you for having given me the opportunity to express my wishes. Still, I greet my family that sought refuge in Ngororero, announcing them that I am still alive but that my house was destroyed by Inkotanyi’s Katiouchas. I also announce you that my young brother Murera was fired at and wounded. He was looked after in Kabgayi Hospital but since it was attacked I do not know his whereabouts. I am asking people who are in Kabgayi to let me know if the patients are still there or if they have been moved to somewhere else, so that I can pay him a visit. Thank you Mr. Gahigi for having given me the floor.

Speaker: Gaspard Gahigi, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

Thank you Mr. Ntahontuye Léonidas. Dear listeners, Mr. Ntahontuye Léonidas came here at R.T.L.M. and said: “You invited people who have got suggestions that can help us to win this war. So, I am coming to give you my suggestions.” Ntahontuye Léonidas gave us three suggestions.

23.5 minutes

The first one is: “ The businesspeople are the ones who have got money. They should make it available to purchase weapons, guns …So that the youth, the soldiers will get equipment to wage this war.” He thanked the businesspeople who did that and tells those who have not done it yet to do so. He also said that the one who would fail to do it would not be granted any importation or exportation license after the war. His second suggestion is: “Let the civil and military intelligence services really operate and reveal where the enemy and the accomplices are. Let also the prosecutor’s offices operate to bring us peace and remove the chaff.” He also said: “Let the soldiers. Let the general staff and the government work together in setting up a military unit of soldiers who can use the “unarmed combat” …Even if they use arms, those soldiers should be given important missions. So one Inkotanyi will not block a road. Those soldiers should be given important missions and drive away the Inkotanyi. Those soldiers would be given a bonus to spur them on fighting. Such a unit should be created.”

However, I think that such a unit exists. What we should request from it is to operate. Dear listeners, Léonidas Ntahontuye alias Micombero composed a poem praising the late General Habyarimana. I thank him and then, we will listen to that poem he composed for. Major General Juvénal Habyarimana.

[Ntahontuye Léonidas’ poem praising Major General Juvénal Habyarimana and the Rwandan Armed Forces.]

Speaker: Valérie BEMERIKI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

The way they kill people. The way they exterminated people and even killed members of religious orders of whom there were three bishops. We told you this. You know that they found them at Kabgayi while in a meeting chaired over by the archbishop of Kigali Nsenyumva Vincent. He was with three bishops: the bishop of Byumba Diocese Ruzindana Joseph, Nsengiyumva Thaddée, bishop of Kabgayi Diocese and the bishop Gasabwoya Innocent. They encircled them and killed them together with other 10 priests.

I was just telling you this. It is when people are phoning that we notice how people follow R.T.L.M. broadcasts. People are phoning asking questions. I think I cannot fail to transmit them to all our listeners. All the Rwandans are now weary of the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi …They do not even understand them. They [the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi] put themselves in a bad situation. If the Inyenzi really want to come back to their country, they should not come killing people. No one of good sense will accept a killer as his neighbor. I think that this will never be possible especially that up to date they did not give up their killings up. They are saying: “They killed our President of the Republic. Now, they killed bishops. And there are huge numbers of people who were killed in this country. They killed the Burundian President Cyprien Ntaryamira and those who were with him. They killed many people in this country. Now, they killed also priests and bishops.” So, who would not the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi kill? The one they would not kill is the one who would be their accomplice in killing. That one would be sure that the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi cannot kill him. However, if he decides to kill like the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi, that means that he is also an Inyenzi-Inkotanyi. People are saying: “The Inyenzi came clown from Mutara destroying everything …Where were the soldiers deployed in that area?” Others say: “ We heard the our soldiers ran away. Is it in the…

29.9 minutes

…context of that “fallback” tactic we heard of?” Those are the questions asked by citizens: “ What is happening? Why are not we given any explanations so that we can assess the situation?” They said: “If our soldiers really withdraw from Mutara, they gave the chance to the Inyenzi to come down and then, they devastated Mutara and killed people. So, the Inyenzi went down because they had been given a chance …They continued and arrived in Murambi, Rukara, Kibungo. along Muhazi’s shore. They even reached some communes of Kigali and of Kibungo like Muhazi. The Inyenzi continued down to Kayonza, exterminating people. They continued up to Rwamagana, [inaudible]…So, our Army that was there …” The residents are saying: “If those who were in Mutara let them pass, those were also surprised and could not do anything. Then, they also fled.” Many Rwandans fled to Rusumo and others were scattered in other regions while others were killed. So, the Inyenzi were given a chance and continued down to Zaza …It is not understandable how they were able to cross from Sake to Bugesera …Our Army. What happened? The citizens are asking themselves such questions. They do not clearly understand what happened. So, the Inyenzi were given a chance and devastated the whole Bugesera. People died and others were enslaved. Those who survived fled. So, they are saying: “Where was our Army? What is the matter with the soldiers who were in charge of that area? What happened to them?” So, the Inyenzi continued [inaudible].. they reached Akanyaru River and were not able to cross. But they used their wicked tricks and tried …Many of them drown in that river but those who were able to cross went and devastated Muyira, Ntongwe …And then, they reached Gitarama. So, people are wondering: “How has it been possible for the Inyenzi to continue their trip and to exterminate people… to kill people up to Kabgayi where they killed bishops and priests? In fact, they nearly attacked the place where the government was…“So, people are wondering: “Let us think about this. If we say that among the civilian citizens, there are those whom we call accomplices who work with the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi, who betray our country …Can we be sure that within the Army Army…that all our soldiers are fiercely defending this country?” This is a question that many residents are asking themselves. They are wondering if this is the case …They are saying: “If in the Army exist such accomplices. Is there not any way they could be arrested and maybe reinstated after? Then, the others would continue their job of defending their country.” That is a question that the residents are asking themselves. Because when we consider the Hutus who died…It started with Gapyisi, then Rwambuka, Gatabazi, Bucyana, the Head of State. They say: “Those are important Hutus who are dying, killed by the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi. We really do not understand. They should examine the reason why the Inyenzi were able to reach Kabgayi.” Let them play some music for you. We will continue in a moment.

The mass …We greet all of you who listen to us. Now, it is 11:24 in the armored studio of R.T.L.M. All R.T.L.M. journalists are greeting you. They are especially greeting Harelimana Gaspard and Kamanzi Emmanuel, Interahamwe of Kinamba. They said: “R.T.L.M. journalists talk and get tired or even start to cough. Let us bring them something to help them.,” We thank very much those people because they think about us. Here, we are really at the battlefield as you say. We are at the battlefield because nobody moves …So, if any of you find something, he should give it to us so that we can collect information for you in order to wage this war in a proper way. So, our thanks to Harelimana Gaspard and Kamanzi Emmanuel, Interahamwe of…

34.7 minutes

…Kinamba who brought us something to drink so that we can continue to converse with you. I just had a cough and then, I remembered that they had given us that something that help us to ease a cough. Now, I want to transmit your messages. I want to transmit the messages of those who are fond of R.T.L.M. radio station. It is ever more obvious that we are winning. They should stop with negotiations and let us catch those Inyenzi, exterminate them…Then, we will drive those who would survive away from the border, not only at 2 or 3 km, but at least at 10 km from the border. Many people even say: “If necessary, we will take them up to Kampala and then, we will show to Museveni that Hutus are also intelligent, that they know what they are doing. So, he will never dream of sending the Inyenzi to attack the Rwandans.” That is what say the phone calls we are receiving, those are the messages of the Rwandans. And they are saying: “Transmit those messages to the High Command of the National Army and let them examine the reason why important Hutus are being killed by the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi.” That is not understandable and we do not either have any explanations about what is going on in Gitarama. You know that people are fighting in various areas…In Nyamirambo …You see that our Army is doing well, that the Inyenzi cannot infiltrate. However, they should not escape from our Army and the youth.

They have to kill them on the spot because when they are driving away, they try to infiltrate from somewhere else. So, driving them away is not enough. It would be better to kill them or to take their weapons so that our youth will get equipment to use. I want all of us to support that youth because we can see that they have the goodwill of attacking the Inyenzi’s positions …The youth says: “We are prevented from doing so because we are told that we should wait.” Then, the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi take that opportunity to kill people. And when killing people, the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi particularly target the important figures of our country …They said themselves that they were looking for intellectuals. When they find those intellectuals, they kill all of them. That is what I was just telling you that there was no way they could have spared the archbishop Vincent Nsengiyumva. We should forget this. They have been abusing him on their so-called radio station …So, we should not linger over this. However, those bishops proved to be courageous, saying: “ We are at the battlefield too. We have to work with the Rwandans and fight.” They decided and said: “ We should not give up. Let us remain here together and defend our country. Let us pray God to help our country.” So, you see that they were also at the battlefield since they did not dare to flee. They stayed with the population. Unfortunately, the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi killed them along with the residents. However, ever the international community is laughing at the explanations given by the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi. They do not understand what the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi are doing. They just can see that those Inyenzi are full of wickedness …That they just like to suck innocent people’s blood, especially Hutus’. So, we ask the Rwandan Armed Forces to do everything possible, with the help of that youth, as they normally do …As they show courage. But that question of how the Inyenzi came from Mutara, Kibungo and captured Bugesera and then, reached Mayaga …The population does not understand this. They ever go further and say …It is not ever going further, it is actually understandable. They are saying: “Among the normal citizens were accomplices who worked with the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi …Those accomplices were discovered. What they planned to do to us was revealed and we prevented them from doing so. So, are all the soldiers really working for the defense of our country’s sovereignty? How did those areas fall into the hands of the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi ? How are those people being killed? How did the Inyenzi know that those people were in a meeting at Kabgayi? Are not some people…

39.3 minutes

…indicating them where people are? “ They are asking this question to the High Command of the Army. However, many people listen to R.T.L.M. They will surely hear of that question. We trust them. We trust our Army and its command. We do not think that they are just sitting quietly. We think that they are thinking of that question. They are surely examining the reason of that.

I think that in a few days, they or our government will deliver a message to the Rwandans. It is now ten to twelve. Let them play some music for us. Let Burasa Angélique enjoy this song. We could not find the one she asked for …However, those to whom she dedicated it should enjoy this one …Among those, her brothers and sisters, ber parents, her friends.

…[Inaudible]

End of Tape.