Information
Date of Transmission28 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM/12
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/12
Name of TranslatorYves-Florent Ndimurukundo
Date of Translation31 October 1995
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0012

Side A

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

…they carried on their heads bottles of Kanyanga [local alcohol made from dirty green banana leaves] ; they carried bottles of gasoline they must drink before they shout while throwing themselves in the bullets of the Rwandese military. So on our part let us smoke hemp even though it is consumed by the one who usually smokes it. But you can bring to us other items, you can bring sorghum beer, oh, we gave up sorghum beer [sad tone], bring some banana wine, some maize, bring us banana, we gave up, bring us beer and we will drink since the bottle got back to 500 Francs. Hey, what is the matter? Bring us some beer because we know that BRALIRWA works. Then those who are running away while there is nothing wrong with the town, who set fright in the countryside pretending that things have turned bad, all those people whose legs have grown fat [because of running], let their legs get fat, but the time will come when we will share their goods and that will teach them to flee. They will find us stronger than ever, we will laugh at them. We will treat them like wheelbarrows and donkeys, we will tweak their ears; we will beat them. Those who hid themselves because they are engineers are arguing that they are afraid to die or lose their jobs. Then, where will they find jobs if Rwanda is taken by the Ugandans? You must fight for the country and look for the job afterwards. Do you mean that jobless people are not human beings? Therefore, I advised those who are in the streets or at the checkpoints that those who are fleeing possess a lot of things with them, then you have to choose and check what you take because those who are fleeing are cowards and they are useless to the country. Check if they have guns and take them. Bring them to the town and let them run away with their rumors. Let them go on listening to R.F.I. [Radio France International] which because the relay station of the Inkotanyi through which they broadcast their prayers and wishes. But these are prayers of sorrow, they are meaningless. In fact, on earth, there things which cheer up and others which do not, but one has to have his spirits raised. A few minutes ago, someone from the General Staff brought good news to me, but I cannot break it to you because it is a secret, but a pleasant secret. Let me ask the technician Kamanzi to play a great number, then we will dance and be happy, dear brothers, everything is near to being over. [A zouk number is played].

…right now I would have taken a girlfriend and gone to Sun City Hotel to dance, but there’s no way because the wild Inyenzi-Inkotanyi have scammed us; they stopped everything. But it doesn’t matter; we will dance anyhow after having beaten them. Nobody can understand how these people are, they have been given C.N.D. and hotels to sleep in, but they choose to dig holes like in Kicukiro and decide to spend the nights in those holes. They are not accustomed to hotels. So if they do not like hotels, why don’t they sleep in their holes and let us sleep in the hotels we built since we like them. Those who like to dance would dance. If a person does not like milk while you prefer drinks, why does he prevent you from drinking and drink his milk, or if he does not drink anything, why does he not leave it up and let you do what you want? So if Inkotanyi prefer to chew maize there in Kicukiro, to run without any direction, to dig out sweet potatoes there in Kacyiru, they should acknowledge being tramps but let people do their jobs. Thus, some should choose to be tramps and others would choose to live decently in the town or in their offices like they were accustomed to. Or, they can get out of their holes and we will wash them. Then, we will undress them from their rags and their boots which have damaged their toes. We will welcome them and say, “You prodigal sons, come and join others.” I cannot understand those people who are always running and saying they have conquered towns. If only they could take those towns and file off in Kigali, pass through the Presidency, go to the bank and take money to pay Inkotanyi as they are sad to live without a salary. Therefore if they are unable to do all this, they ought to go back from where they came from. We fail to understand whatInkotanyi really want. As to their tricks, they attacked in 1990, they attacked Rwanda – in fact, no refugee should attack the country he left – and they said they wanted to go home. We really wondered if the Tutsis of the former times wanted to go home. How come? When you are coming back home, you do not do it by shooting, you do not waste your time in the volcanoes while you should be in a hurry. Had you requested a bus, we could have fetched you. But they chose to live in the volcanoes because they wanted total power. They went to Arusha, used all sorts of tricks. In Arusha, everybody tried to soothe them, the weak parties got involved. With Arusha, we thought that these people were going to leave us in peace as we were soothing them and we hoped we would find a way to live together. But they refused because they are used to living in the forest. They said, “if it does not work like in Uganda, if we do not rule, if the soldiers do not rule and other people do not settle in the tides and cultivate, we would not be Inkotanyi.” Thus, they put us back in trouble and now we have spent two months fighting; but maybe if somebody could advise Inkotanyi, they would be sensible, but nonetheless they must know that you can tell lies to someone and this one can take a look at you and discover that you are lying to him. So do not fool him again! You can use tricks but then things changes. Someone can say: “I have already seen these tricks.” Usually they like to bomb but we wonder why they no longer send their shrapnel these days, where did they put them? They use shrapnel Belgians left them and they lie as they took them out of the Rwandese army whereas it never owned them. These kinds of lies are harmless. Inkotanyi have been fooled as they were told they are incredibly smart and they agreed because they have obtained Arusha. They do not realize that they got Arusha thanks to their different accomplices, may they be whites or Belgians. So are they so intelligent without these accomplices? Inkotanyi have been told that they are rich because they make fund risings which allow them to gather a lot of money. Do they mean that Hutus do not have money? What is the Tutsi who is richer than Kabuga [a rich Hutus businessman] Inkotanyi have been told they have many supporters among the white people who lend a careful ear to whatever they say. When you lie to a friend that you are going to take Kigali within 18 hours and then your friend makes himself ready, he buys clothes, makes beer and says he goes to a wedding. Furthermore if you say, “I, Kagame alias Kagome [small naughty man], will spend the night in the Hotel des Diplomates; I will take tea there on 18th” and you fail to drink it there, you do not come on 20th but you choose to destroy that hotel with shrapnel. Don’t you think that your friend is likely to let you down? Can the minority get friends and the majority miss them? We will tell white people to apply an arm embargo on you. Do you really think the whites can accept to lose money by applying it? [Laugh]. Wait until we get enough bullets to chase them away. They will regret what brought them here, they said they will kill all Hutus, what can they use to decimate Hutus? One Tutsi may kill one Hutus but in the end six million hums can survive, then what ethnic group would be injured most? Then dear Inkotanyi stop making a fool of yourself because your courage has been seen. All you are able to do is bombing, you destroy houses but we will build them up. If you want Kigali to resemble Kampala, it does not matter it is Museveni who misled you, but soon, he will see that he was wrong too. Yesterday, students demonstrated against him, his baldness became sweaty, he kept on lying but the white men discovered he was hypocrite. I doubt that he will succeed to get the aid he went to claim for them because he has so many debts that he cannot redeem them. All they do is hold out and use whirlwind tactics, pretending that you have conquered Bugesera, you have conquered Gitarama, you are in Cyangugu, you own all Rwanda, you have conquered even Burundi. What is the use of the whirlwind politics? It consists of looting so much that you fail to take all the booty with you. If you conquer Bugesera, what will you do with it? What is the use of Kibungo since it is empty of people? What have you done with Byumba you have conquered earlier? It is made only of tides and you do not know to till, who will then do it for you? Now you are looking for day laborers you intend to whip in the country you conquered. This country is not yours; there is no land for Tutsis in Rwanda. Rwanda is one, it is 26,336 square kilometers big and nothing else can be subtracted from it. Therefore, you are very wrong, you ought to sit down and negotiate, don’t miss the Monday negotiations, you should seek a leave in order to count your number and you will notice that you have perished, It is said that cows are misled by a cow belonging to the same drove. Kagame alias Kagome fooled you that you will take Rwanda but you are killed in Kicukiro. You said you will take Kigali but you are dying in Gisozi, you are perishing in the holes of Gatsata. He fooled you that you will rule but you failed. For example, what kind of political parties will you adhere to? Even P.L. is no longer alive, only P.L. power [the toughest wing] is alive. What are you going to do? You should tell me the truth as you must tell people the truth and stop lying. The journalists of Muhabura should tell people the truth too. You should tell them how R.P.F. will be a party without adherents [he means that they have been massacred] then you will have to tell where your roots are. You have one leg as root and this leg has chigoes.

A man called Jean de Dieu Munyamusore asks the one who might have found his son Olivier Mushimiyimana, nicknamed Tintin. This boy lisps; he was lost in Kanombe when they were fleeing. The one who may find him is requested to bring him to Jean de Dieu Munyamusore or he can keep him where they sought refuge and bring him at the end of the trouble. Thus he will be rewarded because he helped him. It is the same case for our friend Innocent Rwabuhungu who sought refuge in Mbazi at Butare…

Be strong and help the people to reconcile in order to struggle against the Inyenzi’s bullets. Inyenzi are shooting at random. Really, Inyenzi are very funny, I wonder if they want to show us that they know to shoot, nevertheless they are granted zero for their score, they know nothing. It is like the former French President de Gaulle who once was trapped in a location called Calamar [the spelling is not definite]. People who wanted to murder him set a bomb where his car was to pass but it exploded after his crossing. Then he said, “In France, people should be taught to count again because their level his grown lower and lower. It is a shame to see people trapping me and miss me. I thought we were very strong at calculations.” Therefore Inkotanyi have zero in calculation. If it is Professor Maquelinnis who makes the calculation, then he has got it wrong. Then if it is him, he can stop those shrapnel because he sends them anywhere, in holes, they kill rats, birds and I do not know if someone sent you to decimate the birds living in this country and all the frogs. Anyway, I hope you see that you are wasting your time, if they are too heavy for you, you can throw them until you run out of it and leave before we slaughter you to the carrion eaters [leave your corpse to them] because we learnt where your machine gun is set. The entitled persons are looking for it and they are near to get it there in Gikomero and it is not far. We are near to find it, take it off your hands and you will leave in shame. So, to the Rwandese military on the front line I say be stronger than ever and kick Inkotanyi out. It is said that Rwandese military are joining Inkotanyi. Huh! We know that where Inkotanyi passed through, they killed their brothers, they killed old women, they killed their own sisters. How can you join those people who kill their own people? Can you join the one who murdered your parents, your friends? Did Rwanda become so small or did it miss strength to fight it? Yesterday in the military program on radio, a soldier told me: “you Inyenzi you know me from wherever we fought, we kicked you out of Rugano and out of everywhere you went through, what more strength did you bring? Do you want to scare me with Ugandan or those old and worn out white people you got from Angola which made them weary? I think that you are wasting a precious time, you are committing suicide because you hanging on something impossible.”

Innocent Rwabuhungu who is working at SONARWA lets know the man, who took his child named Jocelyn Mugeni from ETO in Kicukiro while they were running away from Inkotanyi, to stay with her until…

But they argued that it is far from the town and they were granted C.N.D., tomorrow you will hear them crying that they took C.N.D. I am really puzzled by Inkotanyi’s mental state. They said they took C.N.D. whereas it is where they stayed. But they chose to fight and kill each other within it. Surwumwe Faustin Birindwa who belongs to the standing army of Rwanda in Kigali Camp greets his parents living in Kayove from Gisenyi. He lets them know that he got safely in Kigali. He greets also his older brothers, particularly the Second lieutenant Christophe Sagahutu wherever he may be and the girl he loves Cesaria Twagirayezu. He says good health to all the people from Kayove in Gisenyi. He greets all the military, particularly the battalion in Cyangugu. He would not end without saying hi to Théoneste Nasekuye who is in the military force of Rwanda and who is in Kigali

Today, I received a few advertisements but maybe when I will meet some people, they will ask me to run errands for them. Particularly, those who are in Kigali will learn that we are fine. Good health to all the population of Butare, I greet Bashir from Macyazo, I wish him well because he fought so strong.

Innocent Rwabuhungu working in SONARWA inform the man, who took his daughter Rosine Mugeni from ETO in Kicukiro while they were fleeing, that he should stay with her and he will come to fetch her with a reward. He can inform him about his identity if he is still in Kabeza. He can make it through R.T.L.M. or Kantano here in the shelter of R.T.L.M.

The commune Muyira which became famous in fighting Inkotanyi as it was their target every day. We are sure young Tutsi are looking forward to kill the young Hutus who stayed in

Muyira, it is not surprising. However, they got it wrong because they cannot decimate all the Hutu living in Muyira. So be strong out there in Muyira, in Mututu, in Muyebe. Ay ay ay ay!!!

Sergeant Jean-Desire Habimana greets and informs his parents from Mushubati in Gitarama that he is still alive and he is still fighting against Inkotanyi in the town of Kigali. He greets especially all the girls who like him. He greets Kantano, Gahigi and other journalists of R.T.L.M. because I like them very much. He says: “peace be with you and enjoy your work”…

Some were enclosed in the Stadium, others in Hotel des Mille Collines. No, they were not enclosed, they had sought refuge there and they were exchanged many times. Some wanted to join Inyenzi and others wanted to join the government of Rwanda. Thus, those who joined the government of Rwanda went to Gisenyi and those who chose Inyenzi went to Kinyinya, pass Rutsina and got to Mulindi: some continued until they went abroad to plan some plot. But some small questions keep arising because there are some people who say that they are not willing to join Inyenzi and : “we do not want to leave Hotel des Mille Collins because we are in good conditions here, we are fine, there is no problem. And it is a place controlled by the government. So going back to our quarters, going to Gisenyi or staying in Mille Collines is the same thing. We will stay here in our town Kigali” But they learn that all the people have been urged to go to Gisenyi. I think that the government should think twice about that decision because Hotel des Mille Collines is here in Kigali and Kigali is not in the hands of Inkotanyi, it is controlled by the government of Rwanda. This means that anyone can make the choice to stay in Mille Collines or to go back home in Nyamirambo [a popular quarter of Kigali]. Then, he needs the right to go back there. Thus, those who want to stay in Mille Collines are not ruled by Inkotanyi. Those who want to join Inkotanyi can go where they are but those who support the government of Rwanda can go in any place controlled by the standing army of Rwanda.’ think this is the way it should be because if someone wants to stay in Mille Collines or in Hotel des Diplomates, there is no reason why he should not stay. I understand that Inkotanyi can go mad and bomb those locations; however one can escape from them and stay in these Hotels.

But there are some people who are puzzling because they are Tutsis. They should know there is no relationship between them and Inkotanyi. Furthermore, they recognize that nobody from their family fled this country. They have no relatives abroad; they are Tutsis from Rwanda without links to Inkotanyi. How can they join them as they never contributed [monthly contribution in R.P.F.], never participated in the fund risings, nor participated in the same parties except that they are Tutsis who got afraid to be killed and sought refuge there? They are wondering if they can join Inkotanyi and this is really a problem. Some talked about the problem of Ambroise Murindangabo who is the son-in-law of a man called Gisende and who confesses that his father-in-law is Hutu, his family is here in the quarter but even though he is Tutsi he has nothing to do with Inkotanyi. Then he wonders where he shall go if he joins Inkotanyi. He also added: “There are some people who can hurt me just because I am Tutsi.” Is this really logical? Therefore, I think that as long as Mile Collines is in an area controlled by the government of Rwanda, one can chose to go back in his quarter. So, ordering someone to leave and go to Gisenyi is unfair. If someone who supports Inkotanyi heard that they are in Kicukiro, he can go and stay there. This is not a problem. That’s why they ought to think twice and consider that I am not kidding when I am talking about the places controlled by the government. The government controls the whole town of Kigali. So I think that the one who decides to stay in Kigali, within his quarter, in Mille Collines or Hotel des Diplomates has the right to do so. There is no problem.

You are still tuned to R.T.L.M., the private radio broadcasting from Kigali. To all listeners, wherever they are, I wish them to stay bold. Go on fighting for our country; go on fighting for our town Kigali, the Capital of Rwanda. Thus those troublesome men will be punished the way they deserve it. [A canticle is played].

…greetings to all the population of Cyakabiri, particularly to the people of Gitarama, I advise you to pay attention to those persons coming from Kigali who squint at your shops. These are youngsters, some went to school, others did not but they are very tough. Anyway, there are things they left in Kigali, all those who are begging for some sweet potatoes in the restaurants, all those who are eating the leftovers in the dishes, all those who left their friends in Kigali have packed their things and said they are going to Gitarama, running away from Inkotanyi. However, what the military of Rwanda wanted from them was to help them to show them where any Inkotanyi would pass through. They were requested to stay at the check points, nothing more. Therefore, to all those cowards who are eating 20 Francs sweet potatoes in the outskirts of Gitarama, all those who are lying down in the verandahs, ask to these people from Kigali where they come from and why they are here, then you will discover they are cowards who are ashamed.’ would advise you to look first at the front trucks which are bringing us flavor, beer, then catch those people and send them to us because they cause sorrow. So send us those people who cause you pain and other problems so that they can return to their homes and defend the security of Kigali. Don’t think you are doing a favor to those who are unable to defend the country. If an Inkotanyi comes, he will rush away and you will look for him in vain. He will only obstruct your way to the run. But do not worry because Inkotanyi have noticed that their tactics of running in every direction which makes you wonder how many they are, how they can get enough soldiers to go in Murambi, Mukarange, Cyungo, Bwisige and so on and you believe there is a huge number of them as they are trying to take Kigali. You understand that it is very tiresome. Right now Inkotanyi are counting themselves and they realize that they have looted so many things that they are not able to carry them all. They are going back thinking about how they will work it out and they realize that there is a soldier they left in Rwamagana who is unable to get in touch with the one who is in Kibungo, in Bwisige, Gitake. It is understandable that spreading out people that way as they must prepare the counter-offensive while it won’t take long; you understand that it is easy to defeat them. Now they are making the point, thinking about the steps they have reached but if you look closer you will realize that they have done nothing. That is the reason why in the town of Kigali they are acting like Kamikaze mixing up with a kind of mischief which has never been seen in all the wars which occurred on this planet. For example, there is a French man with a long beard who is famous because he is very pitiful. Indeed, he hired a house in which he sheltered little orphans, both Hutus and Tutsis. These orphans are more than one hundred and Inkotanyi have bombed that house a few minutes ago. Some kids were killed, others are wounded. One wonders whether Inkotanyi are intelligent or not. They bomb anywhere and kill women and orphans and afterwards they claim for promotion and reward because they believe they acted like heroes without looking at all those babies made orphans or killed by of their bombs. Besides, most of these kids were Tutsis and now they are decimated. What are they really doing to do?

Some time ago, I was reading an opened letter addressed to Mr. Alexis Kanyarengwe, Rwandese residing somewhere in Europe or in Uganda. This letter was written to him in Ruhengeri on March 5th, 1991. it was written by Pierre-France Mollaire who was living at the Bishop of Ruhengeri. When I read what he wrote to Kanyarengwe, I really feel pain in the book written by Barahinyura because he tells him things…He says: “Your weapons belonging to the movement you lead referee’ to as R.P.F.-Inkotanyi living in Uganda are shooting in the town of Ruhengeri, they destroy Ruhengeri, your own birth-place. They kill civilians, women, children, crops; they destroy houses of your fellow countrymen. Why do you persecute them? How can you accept the death of the people of Ruhengeri while you were born there? What did these poor people do to yon which led you to send the enemy to them? Did I ever hurt you? Did the Bishop Focas Nikwigize hurt you? by did you send people to kill us? Are these acts the ones you call liberation, integral development of your people, of your friends? Dear Kanyarengwe, I do not really understand it.”

Listen, in reality, I guess there is nobody able to understand Kanyarengwe. He hoped that in the Rwandese army, they would be some military from Ruhengeri who would come to fight for him, thus the army would be divided in two because of the promises he made to them but he came to realize that it was impossible. People from Ruhengeri are Rwandese who are fighting for Rwanda. They cannot set them apart in order to fight for someone called Kanyarengwe who went insane, caused the death of his brothers, who caused the death of Bakiga [the President’s clan], Banyenduga [a clan from the south who was opposing the President], Banyagisaka. It is clear that they cannot support such a person.

You are still tuned to R.T.L.M., the private radio broadcasting here in Kigali, the time is 10:45 [another canticle is played]

They belonged to Gitarama, all those cowards who ran away keep spreading rumors saying that it. is impossible to walk in Kigali…[interruption] …He says: “when I was walking it was already taken.” But I think that a journalist who dreams that Kigali has been taken and spreads that kind of news whereas it is only a dream, he would better get out of dreams, check if he is really awaken and later on say what he knows. As to those who said that people gave up their positions and Hutus have run away. In fact, the white men say it in the hope that R.P.F. will take that town…

End of Side A

Side B

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

In Nyamirambo, in Gitega, in Cyahafi and elsewhere, in Gikondo, in Kicukiro, in Kacyiru, everywhere the way you know Kigali. One can say except Gatsata but we’d rather say that people from Gatsata have been unlucky and they are about to set their area free. Apart from Gatsata, because this is where can be found two cockroaches which are hidden in bamboo where I saw them yesterday. They shot, I evaded and they are not even able to hit their target. This is really the way the way they got there with my friend Ananie. In reality, you will be hearing people who are standing on their posts, who are standing on check points, who are standing with pangas, spears, with guns and so forth. Then, if you hear some shootings. There are some, be aware that inviting Tutsis to come in their town as Hutus have fled is offending. First, it is an offense from white people, where would Hutus go if they fled their town? Thus, all the people are there, aren’t they Ananie?

Speaker: Ananie NKURUNZIZA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Good morning to all the dearest listeners of R.T.L.M. We are together this morning, I went with our Senior Editor, Gaspard Gahigi. I think that what we asked the civilians, patriots and national military is not worth further commenting. But on my part,’ would like to tell you again that it is nit the first time that Kigali is taken according to the white people’s frightening news. You remember in 1990 when Inkotanyi first attacked, they came with journalists whose aim was to see how Kigali would be taken. They spent the night in Mille Collines. Among them was a French named Jean Helene, there were also some Rwandese like the one called Munyarugereri who was working for the newspaper “Jeune Afrique,” all of these have come to see how Kigali would be taken. They went back without the capture of Kigali. Now again, Kigali has been captured, it has been captured by Radio France International, by the British radio BBC and by Radio Muhabura. However I told you that we, journalists, stay in the quarters and we made the watch patrols with soldiers and other patriots. We were very dismayed when we heard the radios early this morning saying that we have been captured. We met at work, we looked at each other and still in dismay thought to ourselves what if we have been captured. Having realized that we were not captured, we decided to check whether others have not been caught. Therefore, I went with the Senior Editor, Gaspard Gahigi, we went around.’ said that you will hear by yourself the questions he put to some people. It’s no use to spend much time on it. However, for Inkotanyi and their media, they intend to catch us before Monday. And like I told you on Monday are to be held negotiations between both belligerents. As they did not catch ns today, we have to wait and see what will happen tomorrow on Sunday. If Monday comes without our capture, we will be playing for time because today is the 52th day since the retaking of the fighting and they did not defeat us yet, we are still here. Dear Kantano, I think I do not have much to say because everything else has been said by the people.

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

Be strong Ananie, I do not want to kill you with curiosity, listen to my fellow Gaspard Gahigi reporting what he heard and this is the opportunity for you to hear it too. Listen to the inventions of Radio Muhabura. This radio did not even get to Kigali and have a look. Those who spread rumors that Kigali is impossible to live in will hear that they are very wrong and besides I think you should come back in your town before we take it and keep you where you went: us listen to what Gahigi succeeded to get in every quarters as to how people are on the check points:

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

Dear listeners, foreign radios started broadcasting nonsense that Inkotanyi have taken the town of Kigali. Then, we decided to go round this town of Kigali, we met people who were on the check points who told us themselves their locations and how they stood. Right we are with a person who is on a check point,” want himself to tell where he is and how they are at their location.

Speaker: Interviewee

Thank you Mr. Gahigi Gaspard, my name is Esilone Twahirwa, I was born in the Commune Mushubati, secteur Mwaki, Cellule Nyarusange, I am in Gikondo on a checkpoint, we are with military and we are in a good shape, there is no problem, no cockroaches, we caught [the following is inaudible] …He was wearing boots, a cockroach’s uniform and a Kalashnikov.

Q: Where are you exactly in Gikondo so that the listeners can hear that there are still some people in Gikondo, tell where you are standing and the people who are with you and they can speak if they will.

R: For the people who know and stayed in Gikondo. We are in a place called Ku rya gatanu [on the fifth], all the people are there,’ can leave the floor to them, all the people from Ku rya gatanu are in a good shape without any problem.

Q: Tell us the way you are facing the cockroaches, where are they coming from, what they mean when they say that they have taken Kigali. how is your plight?

R: We are here with military, we are very calm, no cockroach can cross the check-point, instead when we see them we run after them and catch them. I told you that we caught one cockroach earlier and they are even using children. We once caught two kids who were going to Rebero and they have been sent to spy the locations of our check-points but they never go beyond Ku rya gatanu, all the people know it. From ASAP to Mathias’ building, there are people, life goes as usual, and the markets are opened. For example on the market of the place called Marathon, you can find sugar, rice and much more. Therefore, cockroaches did not capture it, it is wrong.

Q: When the cockroaches attacked on the 7th, they were on Rebero, right now, how far can you go? When they say that they have captured the town, do you realize they have moved from where they were, how far can you move from Ku rya gatanu?

R: I would like to tell you that young boys of Kurya gatanu are very bold, we even make patrols up to Rebero. We once made a patrol in Rebero and when some cockroaches saw us. They went to hide themselves. As we had no permission to shoot, we just had a few grenades and we were just making a patrol, we did not go there to fight, we went there to check if there were some cockroaches. Usually, they are very few, two or five, and when they see us, they run away. These kids had the mission to tell how many people they saw.

Q: Karemana is a young boy I know who is living Ku rya gatanu. You are living here Ku rya gatanu I know you. How are you facing cockroaches as you never moved from here and cockroaches say that they captured the town. What is your opinion?

R: They always say whenever the y get the opportunity that they captured the town. What I can tell you is that everything is all right for us here. Cockroaches never get here Ku rya gatanu. There are no cockroaches in Gikondo, they are very farther up. Sometimes they come by night and they attack from up. No cockroach get here Ku rya gatanu.

Q: I would like to ask yon with regard to your position and to the way cockroaches come down, [inaudible] ?

Q: I know you face cockroaches, I would like to know how you face them. What do you have? Do you have bows, spears or guns, how is it?

R: We, the civilians who are here Ku rya gatanu, have grenades, some have guns eyen the one who have a cudgel or a bow goes up to Rebero. It does not matter whether cockroaches are numerous or not, no civilians is afraid of them.

Q: Some people are complaining saying that they have problems related to guns. You have spears and bows, i.e. the one who has no gun can work too. You work with the civilians and you see them with their, cudgels, bows and spears?

R: The example I can give you is the civilians who are here around ns. You can see that some have sticks, others have grenades. There are a few who have guns but we help our soldiers. Where our soldiers go, they are accompanied by civilians…[inaudible],…

Q: I see another young man here, lf you listened to the foreign radios this morning you probably heard that cockroaches claim that they captured Kigali. Can you tell us how you are facing cockroaches here Ku rya gatano?

R: [the first part of the answer is inaudible] …I do not think that we had terrible fighting which can cause us problems. You see that civilians have enough tools to defend themselves fairly. Until now cockroaches claim that Rebero or Kicukiro is theirs but they are lying. In fact, the only problem occurs when they kill civilians and their neighbors then get afraid and run away…. [inaudible]

Q: When do you fight with cockroaches? Is it in the night or in the day? For the people who do not know Gikondo under Rebero where cockroaches are since the beginning and up to now you are still fighting. When do they come, how do you fight? how do they attack? For the person who never lived here? R: Usually, cockroaches come late in the night around midnight or three. But last Friday, they attacked in the afternoon around four there in Kicukiro and I participated in attack. It took place near SONATUBE and BRALIRWA. What I can tell you about is the number of cockroaches who got injured as you were not able to be there and watch by yourself But usually, they like to launch meaningless attacks which we are used to. They cannot come by day because they are afraid of civilians. You can see by yourself that they cannot come through these civilians. They come by night and pass through places where there are no civilians. They are genuine cockroaches who eat up clothes.

Q: By the way, I see children and normally when there is trouble women and children flee. Tell me, did arty of you saw cockroaches?

R: I have never seen them.

Q: Why didn’t you flee? Are you still here Ku rya gatanu?

R: in [the answer is inaudible]

Q: Why are you still here Ku rya gatano and did not flee? How old are you?

R: I am seven years old. We flew but we came back. We sent some people who told us that there was peace in Gikondo. Then, we decided to come back home.

Q: Do you stay here Ku rya gatanu?

R: I stay down in Rugunga.

Q: Where were you when cockroaches attacked?

R: [the answer is inaudible]

Q: Now you are back?

R: Yes.

Q: What about you? [to another child] How old are you?

R: My name is Kayove. I am seven.

Q: Why didn’t you flee and stayed in Gikondo?

R: We never ran away

Q: How many are you at home?

R: We are all together.

Q: What’s your name?

R: My name is Habimana.

Q: How old are you?

R: Nine.

Q: Did you run away or you did not

R: We once fled to Gitarama where people kept telling us that there were peace and we came back to Gikondo where we found our grand-mother.

Q: Were they alive and are you staving in Gikondo now?

R: Yes

Q: You, what’s your name?

R: [inaudible]

Q: How old are you?

R: Eleven.

Q: Are you staying here in Gikondo?

R: [inaudible]

Q: Have you ever seen cockroaches?

R: No

Q: You hear talk about them? What is your understanding of them?

R: People say cockroaches have attacked and urge us to flee…[inaudible]

Dear listeners, you heard by yourselves that in Gikondo civilians are there with children and there is security. Then, Gikondo has not been captured. Moreover, I meet one officer who leads the soldiers facing cockroaches. I would like him to tell you the situation of his soldiers and the civilians who are here in Gikondo.

Speaker: Officer

Thank you journalist from R.T.L.M., here in Gikondo we are standing on a position from which we face the enemy. The enemy tries hard to capture a greater part but on our part we cannot let him. That is why he goes on spreading rumors. Here, civilians are still there and he keeps on throwing bombs to them so that they can be afraid and flee. Thus. He would be able to enter houses they quit but we are here in Gikondo under Rebero. The enemy tried this night to come down from Rebero, he wanted to attack ns but we faced him and we succeeded to push him back. He went back in the area towards Gahanga and he is looking for a way to settle there in order to attack us. But we are in good shape here and I want to tell civilians staying here to avoid lending their ears to rumors. Now, they know how to protect themselves from those bombs which are thrown to them. They ought to dig holes and remain there, if they see the enemy, they all have been taught how to defend themselves, they ought to take a gun and shoot him. We will really defeat him.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Thank you, there is one of your soldiers who is here, you were there during the attack launched by Inkotanyi, tell us how you are.

Speaker: Soldier

Dear listeners, I would like to let yon know that we are facing the enemy here in Gikondo. The enemy tried to infiltrate in order to frighten the civilians but we keep an open eye. The enemy cannot pass through us. We tell the people that they should not take into account all the rumors they hear because we are so tough against the enemy that he has no way to disorganize us.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I would like to hear something about your collaboration with civilians. You are a soldier, here in Gikondo you are with civilians, how do you collaborate?

Speaker: Soldier

Civilians assist us because they cannot leave at random, they must stay there and face the enemy. Some of them have weapons and are strong. They assist the military to fight cockroaches in case they found a way through our position.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

People from Gikondo, hold on tight.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Here we are in Kimihurura near ATS, we met civilians and soldiers who are on the check point. I would like to leave the floor to Idi so that he tells the way things are in Kimihurura.

Speaker: Idi RUBAYIZA

My name is Rubayiza Idi from Commune Mukarange in the Prefecture Byumba. I was a worker in Kimihurura and my people flew and joined me in Kimihurura. In reality. On our position in Kimihurura, no Inkotanyi got there. Our position has no problem, if Inkotanyi come we will do our best to defend ourselves. But no Inkotanyi has ever stepped in Kimihurura.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I see some soldiers beside, I see you are collaborating with soldiers, I would like to leave the floor to them in order to tell us about the situation here in Kimihurura. Did Inkotanyi get here as they say that they captured the town?

Speaker: Soldier

My name is Bahizi Jean de Die, here on the check point of Kimihurura, we are with civilians and we are in good plight. What I can say is that this is a trick Inkotanyi want to use in order to find a way out that is why I tell civilians wherever they are to check everywhere the enemy may be.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

People say that you collaborate with civilians. Is that true? Do they assist you? Do they master the use of guns? Do you teach them7Tell us about it?

Speaker: Soldier

We collaborate with civilians in the military frame and when you take a look at them you may think they are soldiers too because you cannot distinguish them from the military because they have guns too.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Thank you.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Here we are in Kimicanga and you all know that this area shelters a huge number of dwellers. I would like the people from here to introduce themselves, to tell us about their situation, to tell us whether they are really in the arms of Inkotanyi or not, I leave the floor to you.

Speaker: Interviewee

My name is Ndengetsimana Anasthase alias Gangi. I am here in Kimicanga, I ma preparing brochettes. My brochettes are eaten by civilians and our military. We feed them in order to gain strength. Right now, we are OK in Kitnicanga

Q: Did some Inkotanyi get here in Kimicanga?

R: No Inkotanyi got in Kimicanga. lf they could, we would treat them bad.

Speaker: Another Interviewee

My name is Ndayambaje Jean-Pierre nicknamed Nzinzi. I am from Ruhengeri. Here we are in Kimicanga and no cockroaches ever stepped in. When they say that they captured the town of Kigali, we ignore what kind of Kigali they mean because up to now we are together with the military of Rwanda. I do not know the aim of those cockroaches who tell lies to the entire world. Here we have guns, nobody fights for us, and we fight by ourselves. We fight for the independence of our country. The cock roaches have been defeated and even now they are being defeated. The only place they captured is the location from which they are throwing their bombs, otherwise we are OK in Kimicanga, that’s all I can tell you.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I see an old man behind, I would like to leave the floor to him too. You old man I would like you to address R.T.L.M. listeners about cockroaches who said they captured the town.

Speaker: Old Man

My name is Habimana Thomas, 1 am the member of cellule here in Kimicanga. We saw no cockroaches here in Kimicanga, we have many young boys and many guns which were given to us.

Q: Where are cockroaches located in this area?

R: It is a wandering thing.

Q: But when they are saying that they captured Kigali, where are they?

R: We hear they are everywhere in Kigali.

Q: But none got here?

R: We have not seen one here in Kimicanga.

Q: They say they are everywhere but you haven’t seen one? Do you mean they lie?

R: Which way would they take with all the guns we have here?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Then hang on.

Speaker: Old Man

One more thing, I have a child living in Kanombe whose name is Habimana Barthelemy and I want him because it’s been a long time I did not see him.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

So if he is listening to R.T.L.M., he should know that his father is here in Kimicanga…

Speaker: Old Man

We need no cockroaches here

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Hang on then

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I see so many young boys here in Kimicanga, I would like you to comment on the fact that cockroaches said that they captured Kigali.

[The interview is made in Lingala; later the floor is given to another young boy who speaks Swahili]

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

What do you want to say?

Speaker: Boy

My name is Musore Jones, I am Zairian from Kigoma but in my opinion if I go to Zaire because if somebody starts mourning, we have to sympathize with him in his grief. There is no need to flee because if the trouble found me here with the death of the President, I am enduring it, it is the will of God. We are troubled very much by Inkotanyi. We pray God because they cannot escape from us with the round we make. Inkotanyi is my enemy, the enemy of Hutu because even Zairian is Hutu and we are all brothers. That is why I thought I would not benefit anything from running away. lf I should die I will die because they killed the General and it is as if they killed Hutus. The way I considered it in Zaire is the same as the way I consider it in Rwanda.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

I see there are many people who want to express themselves about cockroaches, what about you Karekezi?

Speaker: Pierre-Claver KAREKEZI, Impuzamugambi Militant

Me, the Impuzamugambi [C.D.R. militant], Karekezi Pierre-Claver who stays here in Kimicanga, I have a message for all the Rwandese who are listening to us. In Kimicanga, we push away all the cockroaches. The reason is that cockroaches attack Interahamwe or Imbuzamugambi everyday living here in Kimicanga. For that reason then Interahamwe and Imbuzamugambi who are here in Kimicanga, we decided to fight Inkotanyi wherever they may come from.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Do you have tools?

R: In Kimicanga, there are tools, no cockroach should be wrong to get in Kimicanga by force. We will fight them day and night.

Q: Cockroaches announced on foreign radios that they have captured Kigali.

R: Really, I am lmpuzamugambi from C.D.R. and I would like to tell all Rwandese that the cockroach who will dare getting in Kitnicanga will be seriously ill-treated. There is no way they can get into Kitnicanga. [Another youngster intervenes] My name is Hitayezu Patrick,’ am fighting against cockroaches there in Kajevuba, except, that they no longer come there because they have been so badly treated. They have seriously defeated and they cannot come again.

Q: But now they say that they took the town.

R: You know how they usually lie.

Q: But let me ask you something, have you ever seen cockroaches?

R: I saw cockroaches and we beat them militarily and it would be an incredible chance for them to come to Kacyiru.

Q: Some say that when they come, you give them a part time job

R: We give them a part time job because we hit them ruthlessly

Q: Hang on, do you want to speak too?

R: My name is Eric and no cockroach came here.

Q: Have you ever seen cockroaches?

R: I once saw one and we threw him stones and we killed him. What I want to say now is that persons who were staying in Kimicanga and who made the mistake to flee should come back because we all are here. Nobody flew. Those who flew should come back.

Q: What is your name?

R: My name is Nsengiyumva Marc and I live in Kimicanga. I fight cockroaches because they keep shooting and their bullets pass over our heads. However, one of them who make a mistake to pass here is caught and badly killed and he wonders why he came. When they say that they caught Kigali, it is just a matter of encouraging their brothers who are in Kinihira whereas they are seriously hit. First, they get no food, they are starving. How can you fight while hungry? When they needed to eat they would go to Kinihira because they were afraid to cross the town…

End of Side B