Information
Date of Transmission21 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM/8
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/10
Name of TranscriberDrocella Icyitegetse
Date of Transcription14 February 2000
Duration90 Minutes
QualityGood
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0010

Synopsis

Side A

  • Conversation between Gaspard Gahigi, R.T.L.M. Journalist, and Ephrem Nemeye, Chair of the Committee of Study and Programs and member of the Politburo of the Democratic Party. Their conversation deals with the Hutu-Tutsi problem, the death of President Juvénal Habyarimana, etc.
  • Interview between Gaspard Gahigi and Marie-Claire Kayirange, a young girl who was determined to fight the Inyenzi-Inkotanyi
  • Nkomati, an R.T.L.M. journalist, praises Marie-Claire and invites the rest of the population to follow her example. He urges the people to be vigilant and stop all acts of barbarism.

Side B

  • Gahigi speaks with Epimaque Abiyingoma, assistant bourgmestre of the town of Rutare, and Cyriaque Habiyambere, inhabitant of the town of Buyoga, both displaced by war.

Side A

Speaker: Ephrem NEMEYE, President of the Commission of Study and Programs

Nyakubahwa Ministre KAMBANDA, Ministre w’Intebe KAMBANDA, avuga ati «noneho kereka nibashyiraho Guverinoma yabo akaba ari bo bashyikirana. None se bazashyikirana na nde? Uwo mutego rero w’ amoko ugomba gushyirwa ahagaragara. Ikibazo cy’Abahutu n’Abatutsi ni cyo kiriho ubu ngubu. None se ubu ngubu turarwana na nde? Ngira ngo nk’iyindi mitego, iyo ngiyo mvuze yonyine irahagije indi yose iragaragara.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

Icyo kibazo uvuze cy’amoko ni ikibazo koko giteye ubwoba, giteye inkeke, ariko ndagira ngo nanjye ntange umuganda wanjye, kuko muri… Arusha njye nagize amahirwe yo kukurikirana ayo masezerano kuva mu ntangiro kurinda bashyiraho umukono, icyo kibazo rero cy’amoko uretse na Arusha na hano mu gihugu cyarabaye, ariko bagakomeza kukizinzika, bagakomeza kugipfukirana, ariko ababishatse ni Abatutsi! Ni Abatutsi ntabwo Abahutu bigeze bahakana ko ikibazo cy’amoko kiriho, uretse nyine Abahutu b’inda nini. Ubundi Umuhutu yarazaga yavuga ati «nyamara hari ikibazo cy’amoko cy’Abahutu n’Abatutsi», bati «gapfe kanwa kabi», bati «uri Umuhutu extrémisteo», bakakwamagana ndetse ukaba wahagirira ibyago. Igituma rero ikibazo kitavuzwe Arusha, ndetse no mu gihugu ukumva bun gihe babuza… nda… babuza, abo mvuga bakibuzaga ni ba nde? Ni Abatutsi. Bumvaga umuntu w’Umuhutu avuze ikibazo cy’Abahutu n’Abatutsi, bakagukomanyiriza, bakavuga ko uri umuntu ukurura ibibazo by’amoko, icyatumaga rero batakivuga ni iki? Ni uko Abatutsi icyo kibazo bad bakizi, kandi bakora ibintu nka biriya by’Inkotanyi bishingiye ku moko, ariko bakavuga bati «nimuvuga ikibazo cy’amoko, muzatuma Abahutu bava aho bavumbure ko natwe dufite ibintu nk’ibyo by’Inkotanyi bishingiye ku moko». Bakavuga rero bati «mwe kukivuga, ariko bo babikora! Icyo ni ikibazo rero giteye ubwoba. Arusha rero bakomeje kukizinzika, ndetse bakabwira nyine abo Bahutu b’abagambanyi bati «ntimukavuge ko ikibazo kiriho», none se ko uvuga uti «kirabashibukanye, mu Burundi ntabwo uzi ko bail bavuze bati «ntimukabivuge, ntibibaho, ibyo bintu bisigaye muri Afurika y’epfo no mu Rwanda, ariko se umutego ntiwashibutse mu Burundi mbere yo mu Rwanda? Nkagira ngo rero NEMEYE nkushyigikire muri icyo kibazo, ariko mbwira abatwumva ko icyo kibazo abantu bakunze kugihisha cyan ni Abatutsi, ndetse bakumvisha Abahutu ko batagomba kukivuga, noneho Abahutu b’inda nini koko bakomeza kuvuga ko nta kibazo gihari, ndetse nagira ngo nkubwire ko no mu manama amwe n’amwe najyaga njyamo twageraga ku kibazo cy’amoko, bakavuga ko nta kibazo, ariko abo ndavuga abavuga abo ad bo, ari Abatutsi cyangwa Abahutu babashyigikiye mud… muri iyo… muri uwo mugambi wabo wo kuzatuvumbukana bamaze kugwiza imbaraga, kuko igihe bahishaga icyo kibazo bo bakoreshaga amoko bashaka imbaraga. Noneho bakavuga bati «icyo kibazo no mu manama na he mujye muvuga ko nta kibazo cy’Abahutu n’Abatutsi gihari, ahubwo hari ikibazo cy’abakire n’abakene, hari ikibazo bita mu gifaransa la classe sociale, ko rero nta kibazo cy’Abahutu n’Abatutsi kiriho». None rero ngo… nta wutwika inzu ngo ahishe umwotsi, ubanza noneho umwotsi waragiye hanze n’ibibatsi byaragiye hanze, nta wakomeza rero kubi… fefeka, nkagira ngo rero NEMEYE noneho duse nk’abagana ku musozo, iyi ntambara turimo uko yubuye urakuzi, yubuye ari uko abagizibanabi twe twemeza ko an Inyenzi-Inkotanyi, zifatanyije na bamwe mu Babiligi bad bagize umutwe wa MINUAR bivuganye Prezida wa Repubulika, Nyakwigendera Jenerali Majoro HABYARIMANA Yuvenali, tariki ya 6 z’ukwezi kwa kane. Intambara rero yarubuye, ariko yubuye ugasanga ari intambara yari yateguwe, ahubwo kwica Prezida wa Repubulika byari intangiro gusa y’iyo ntambara, kuko urebye uko Inkotanyi zahise nyine zubura imirwano, uko zateye, intwaro zari zinjije mu gihugu, abasirikare zari zinjije mu gihugu, uko zari zakoranye n’Ababiligi kugira ngo zigote iki gihugu, zigote uyu mujyi ugasanga ari intambara yari yateguwe. Nkagira ngo rero, twaganiye igihe kirekire, ariko duse nk’abagana ku musozo, umbwire uko muri Parti démocrate mwakiriye cyangwa mwa… mwakoze analyse y’urwo… rupfu rwa Prezida n’ukubura imirwano, ndetse utubwire wowe n’ukuntu iyi ntambara ubona imeze n’ukuntu ubona yarangira. Nongeye kugusubiza ijambo Bwana NEMEYE.

Speaker: Ephrem NEMEYE

Murakoze Nyakubahwa GAHIGI, muvandimwe, turagenda tugana ku musozo koko, euh… ikibazo umbajije… nako ingingo umpaye yo kuvugaho irimo urupfu rwa Nyakubahwa Prezida wa Repubulika, ndayivugaho ni cyo gituma wumva mpinduye ijwi ni uko binteye agahinda. Mpinduye ijwi kubera ko Nyakubahwa Prezida wa Repubulika watabarutse, HABYARIMANA Yuvenali, yababaje abantu benshi. Simvuze ko yababaje Bose, kuko naba mbeshye kuko abamwishe ntabwo yababaje kuko bashakaga kumwica. Ndabanza mushime kuko yari umugabo. Ndi mu ishyaka rindi, muri Parti démocratre, ariko twese twabanje mu ishyaka rimwe, hanyuma duhimba andi mashyaka tuyajyamo, ariko amashyaka menshi, nshatse navuga na yose, nkavuga n’amahanga menshi, nshatse navuga na yose, yemeraga Prezida HABYARIMANA yuko yari umugabo ufite ibitekerezo, uzi politike gihugu cy’u Rwanda, umugabo wan ushoboye kuyobora politike, no kuyobora iki gihugu cy’u Rwanda. Urugero ni uko ya… bamwishe, bamwivuganye abamwishe, ndi buze kugira icyo mbavugaho aka mu kanya, abamwishe, bamwishe bamwicishije iyo ndege yari arimo, mvuze iyo ndege kubera ko isanzwe izwi, bamwishe bamutinya. Kabishywe yaravuze ati njyewe ndi ikinani cyananiye abagome n’abagambanyi», ariko n’ubu twebwe turavuga yuko akiri ikinani, ahubwo tukavuga ko abaye ikirangirire mu mateka ya Repubulika y’u Rwanda, Imana imuhe iruhuko ridashira.

Uwo mugabo rero, urupfu rwe rwababaje Abanyarwanda benshi. Ariko kandi, Parti démocrate, mu ijwi ryanjye nanjye ubwanjye turavuga tuti «HABYARIMANA Yuvenali abaye igitambo kigaragaje ukuri. Abaye igitambo, Nyakubahwa HABYARIMANA Yuvenali, abaye igitambo-rumuri rumurikiye Abanyarwanda, ubugome bwose, amayeri yose n’imitego yose yari inyuma y’amasezerano ya Arusha. Byaragaragaye ko icyo bari bagamije ari ukwigarurira u Rwanda, bagatsemba abantu, bakica, bakagarika ingogo, bagasenya ibintu, u Rwanda noneho rugahinduka igishushungwa bakabona uko barwigarurira. HABYARIMANA rero n’ubu, n’ubu njyewe, na Parti démocrate turacyavuga ko akiri umugaba, kubera ko urupfu rwe rubaye umusemburo wo gutuma u Rwanda rugaragaza ukuri kwari kwihishe inyuma y’amasezerano y’Arusha. Umuryango we twifatanyije na wo, Abanyarwanda bamuku… bamukunda kandi bamwemera twifatanyije na bo, HABYARIMANA abaye urugero rw’abantu bakunda igihugu, abaye urugero rw’abantu bagomba kuzakurikiza mu kwitangira u Rwanda. Urupfu rwe rero, twebwe ntabwo dushidikanya, mu bamwishe Ababiligi barimo. Mu bamwishe Dallaire na we tumushyiramo, kuko uyu mugambi nta kuntu atari awushyigikiye, kugeza ubu ngubu kumva Dallaire atinyuka akavuga ngo… ngo «abari barinze ikibuga cy’indege» ngo «harimo MINUAR» ngo «ifatanije n’ingabo z’u Rwanda». Twebwe ibyo ntabwo tubyemera. Mu bamwishe, mu bamwishe, Ababiligi barimo, Dallaire arimo n’Inkotanyi zirimo. Ibyo ngibyo nta… nta kwirirwa abififika na bya bindi bavuga ngo nta ankete, twebwe dusanga ndetse nta… nta ankete zindi zigomba gukorwa, ahubwo biradutangaza kumva ngo… Ababiligi ba… barahagurutse ngo… ngo… ngo «abasirikare babo bapfuye icumi», ngo «nihakorwe ankete». Babanje bagakora ankete. Hazabanze hakorwe ankete ku bishe Repubulika y’u Rwa… ku bishe Prezida wa Repubulika y’u Rwanda. Icyo kintu na cyo gifatwe gityo wa mugani wa… Ministre w’Intebe. Habanze hakorwe ankete ku bishe Prezida wa Repubulika y’u Rwanda, wenda bijyane n’abo Babiligi, kuko bo barimo, bijyane na bo.

Kuri urwo rupfu rero rwa Nyakubahwa Prezida wa Repubulika y’u Rwanda, HABYARIMANA Yuvenali, rwaratubabaje, ruzakomeza kutubabaza, ariko kandi Abanyarwanda babyumve, rwagaragagaje ukuri kugomba gutuma u Rwanda ruzabaho. Kwagaragaje amayeri yari yihishe inyuma y’amasezerano.

Nkomeje rero, kuko mwavuze muti «tugende tugana ku myanzuro», nagira ngo mvuge kuri iyi ntambara, mvuge iyi ntambara abo tuyirwana na bo. Ndatangirira wenda aho abantu batamenyereye gutangirira, ndatangirira ku Babiligi. U Rwanda rurimo rurarwana n’Ababiligi. Ni ukuvuga ko turarwana n’abantu b’ingeri eshatu. Ingeri ya mbere ni Ababiligi bateye u Rwanda. Ibyo ahubwo ntabwo… duku… ntabwo tugomba kubica iruhande, kuko na Guverinoma yabo irabashyigikiye. Nigeze kumva… Umubiligi ngira ngo ni Ministre w’Intebe zabo, avuga kuri France Inter. avuga, agaragaza yuko u Rwanda ari rwo rusa n’aho rufite amakosa. Ibyo bintu byara… byara… byara… byarambabaje cyane. Bikaba bigaragara rero ko Ababiligi ibyo bakora byose bagenda babogamiye ku Nkotanyi. Ubundi bagombye kuba abahuza! Inkotanyi niba zishaka kuza mu Rwanda, niba ari Abanyarwanda koko bemera ntuza… ubumwe bugomba kugira Abanyarwanda, zagombye kuza zemera… zemera imishyikirano. None ubu ngubu imishyikirano ntabwo ziyemera. Ababiligi rero bari muri bariya bateye u Rwanda.

Aba kabiri, ingeri ya kabiri y’abateye u Rwanda ni Museveni. Museveni bamuvuzeho mu gitondo. Natwe turamuvugaho. Museveni ni we wateye u Rwanda ku… ku ntera ya kabiri. Aba mbere ni Ababiligi, aba kabiri ni Museveni. Kubera iki tu… tubashyira aba mbere. Ababiligi, iyi plan y’Inkotanyi bari bayizi. Museveni iyi plan y’Inkotanyi yazikoranye na zo. Kuko ibyo nta wakwirirwa abica iruhande ngo… ngo ibi n’ibi ni… ni byo Nyakubahwa KAMBANDA avuga, by’ibintu byo kuvuga ngo… ngo ni akazuyazi, ngo… ngo ni modéré, nta modérd iriho. Ibi mu by’ ukuri ni cyo cyishe uru Rwanda ni uko batagiye bavugisha ukuri. Ziriya za plan zose bari bazizi.

Aba… ya., aba gatatu, ingeri ya gatatu yateye u Rwanda ni abana bakomoka kuri LUNARI. Icyo ngicyo ni ikintu kigomba ku… kumenyekana kikumvikana, abakomoka kuri LUNARI barwaniraga impunzi zabo ziri mu mahanga kuva za… kuva zahunga muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda, ni bo babyaye iki gitero kiriho ubu ngubu, cyitwa Inkotanyi. Ubundi mbere muri za mirongo itandatu na rimwe kugeza muri mirongo itandatu na karindwi bateraga aba… abantu bi… bitwa izina ry’Inyenzi, ariko ubundi iryo zina rivuga… bavuga yuko ngo ari… Ingangurarugo ziyemeje kuba ingenzi. Ingangurarugo ziyemeje kuba ingenzi. Ubwo urumva rero ingangurarugo ni ikintu urumva ko kimeze nk’icyivugo cy’ingabo za kera, za… za… za cyami! Inkotanyi rero urumva ko bigenda bihura rwose! Hem! Wenda niba ingenzi ari cyo cyahindutsemo Inyenzi, uko byamera kose Inkotanyi n’Ingangurarugo ziyemeje kuba ingenzi, urumva ko byose ari icyivugo kandi kikagusha ku ngabo za kera, za cyami! Icyo kintu na cyo gifatwe, Abanyarwanda bajye bamenya gusobanukirwa. Nkunda rero abantu, nk’ uko GA… GAHIGI Gaspard ujya ukunda kubisobanura, hamwe na… Andereya wa wundi ujya usese… ujya ubasesengurira ibyo ba… ibyavuzwe mu binyamakuru…

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Ananiya.

Speaker: Ephrem NEMEYE

Ananiya. Rwose burya ibiganiro byacu tura… byanyu turabikurikira cyane, mujye mukomeza kuri ubwo buryo, musesengure, wenda za passion ntiziteze kujyamo, ariko muvugishe ukuri. Twebwe rero muri Parti démocrate twiyemeje kujya tuvugisha ukuri, kuko ni ko kuzubaka iki gihugu.

Izo ngeri rero eshatu uko zakabaye, ubu ngubu intambara turwana ni iy’abo Bantu b’ibice bitatu. Bose izina ribabumbiye rikaba ari Inkotanyi. Kugira ngo rero nse n’uwanzura, kuko twa…twavuganye bihagije, ibindi ubwo tuzajya dukomeza, kuko twebwe… tubereyeho gufasha igihugu cyacu kugira ngo kive muri aka ka… muri aka kaga, icyo narangirizaho ni uko twongeye gushyigikira Guverinoma, Guverinoma ngoboka gihugu y’abatabazi. Twizere ko Guverinoma bitazayirakaza ko twayise Guverinoma ngoboka gihugu y’abatabazi kuko ni ko tuyibona. Natwe rero muri Parti démocrate, tukaba dushaka gufatanya n’abandi. Tugafatanya na Guverinoma kugoboka igihugu. Twu… herutse kumva Nyakubahwa Ministre w’Intebe euh… inama yagiranye, yunguranye ibitekerezo n’abantu bo muri Université, ba professeurs n’abashakashatsi n’abandi ba… bize, kuko natwe muri Parti démocrate dufite abantu bize, bajijutse kandi bazi amateka y’igihugu, turavuga tuti «umuganda wacu, twiyemeje kujya dufatanya n’abandi mu bitekerezo, no muri ziriya za komisiyo bazashyiraho, cyane cyane nka ziriya za komisiyo ze… zigenewe kwiga amavu n’amavuko y’iyi ntambara turwana». Nka komisiyo yaba yerekeye ubukungu n’ituzwa ry’abantu, cyane cyane igarurwa mu bya… mu byabo ry’ababivanywemo, n’ituzwa ry’impunzi ziri hirya no hino. Ibyo bintu dutanze umuganda wacu, tuzafatanya na Guverinoma, tuzafatanya n’Abanyarwanda bose, murakoze. Hagize ibindi bibazo mwajya mugira, mwajya mutubwira.

Orateur GAHIGI Gaspard:

Murakose. (Arakoroye). Nshuti mutwumva uwo mwumvaga ni NEMEYE Ephrem, NEMEYE Ephrem akaba ari Prezida wa Commission Etude et Programmes y’ishyaka Parti démocrate, NEMEYE Ephrem akaba kandi ari umwe mu bagize Biro politike y’ishyaka Parti démocrate. Nagira ngo rero mumfashe nshuti mutwumva, tumushimire, ikiganiro akaba yakigiranye na Gaspard GAHlGI wongeye kubashimira kuba mwakomeje kudutega amatwi, NEMEYE Ephrem rero nongeye kugushimira mu izina rya R.T.L.M. n’abayigize bose, n’abayikunda bose, kandi twizeye nshuti mwadukurikiranye ko amagambo NEMEYE Ephrem yababwiye, amagambo y’umuntu mukuru w’inararibonye, ko rero ayo magambo yabashimishije, kandi ko mwavanyemo amasomo. Kuko icya ngombwa si ukuvuga byinshi, icya ngombwa ni ukuvuga amagambo y’ihame abantu bagumana mu mutwe, icya ngombwa nk’uko yabivuze ni ukuvugisha ukuri, kuko uko kuri guca mu ziko ntigushye, kandi natwe tukaba dushyigikiye icyemezo cyangwa imvugo NEMEYE Ephrem avuze ko mu… bimwe mu byica iki gihugu cyacu ari ukutavugisha ukuri, uko kutavugisha ukuri bikaba byarakuruwe n’abo turimo kurwana, Inyenzi-Inkotanyi zikomoka kuri LUNARI, LUNARI na yo ikaba ikomoka ku ngoma ya gihake na cyami, icyo kintu rero cy’ubuhake, icyo kintu ee… cyo kutavugisha ukuri, abo bantu bategetse iki gihugu imyaka irenga magana ane badushyizemo, akaba ari ikintu tugomba… koko cyari kigombye kuranga umuntu ukunda Repubulika, umuntu mushya wavuye muri Revolisiyo, ubu rero Revolisiyo igomba gukorwa ya mbere na mbere muri iki gihugu akaba ari ukuvugisha ukuri kutica umutumirano, NEMEYE rero nongeye kugushimira murakoze, tuzongera aho uzajya ushakira hose, mujye muza tuganire, kuko twabonye uri umugabo ufite ibitekerzo bihamye, bishyitse, kandi byubaka. Nkaba ngira ngo rero umu technicien wacu adushyirireho umuzika, NEMEYE tukwifurije umunsi mwiza, murakoze.

(Umuzika)

Speaker: Marie-Claire KAYIRANGE

Aho ngaho mu nzu mbona barimo kohereza ibibombe, bamaze kunteraho nk’ibibombe icumi narabibaraga, mva mu nzu, ndagenda njya ahantu mu mwobo, maze iminsi itatu ntarya, ntanywa, ndatona (tenir) rwose, ubwo ni njye wavuye muri secteur abandi bose barashizemo, Imana mbona inkuyemo nanjye ndagenda, ubwo mbese byitwaga ko nanjye mpunze. Ariko nari mpunze mvuga nti «n’aho ngiye nabwo ndakomeza ndwane nta kibazo». Ubwo n’ubwo narwanaga nta… nta mbunda nari mfite, nta n’ubwo nari nara… nyizi, narwanishaga intwaro za gakondo, ubwo rero murumva ko intambara iri kurwanwa n’abantu bose, igitsina gore na cyo ntabwo kigomba kwicara hamwe ngo giturame ngo umugabo wanjye azandarira ku irondo, ngo njye mu nzu ndyame, non, ntabwo na we agomba gu… ntabwo na we agomba kuryama.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Yee, ubwo rero uti «namaze mu Gatenga, mu mwobo iminsi itatu», none ubu uri kuri bariyeri yo mu Muhima, warwanisha intwaro gakondo ukiri mu Gatenga, ubu hari ikintu bita défense civile, ibintu byo kumenya kwirwanaho ku baturage, Inkotanyi imwe… agakotanyi kamwe ntikaze ngo nikarasa isasu, abantu biruke, urubyiruko rwiruke, baba abahungu, baba abakobwa. Ubu se uko kwirwanaho, iyo defense civile yakugezeho? Ubu wize imbunda? Ubu noneho ushobora kuyikoresha?

Speaker: Marie-Claire KAYIRANGE

Euh… yego ubu nize imbunda rwose, imbunda zose ndazizi, ku buryo batavuga bati «twa… turatatse (attaquer) murabona ko turi muri zone y’Inkota… Inkotanyi mbese zibereye mu Gatsyata natwe turi Kano ku Muhima, duhanganye na zo, ariko kuva mfite imbunda yanjye ntabwo nshobora kugira ubwoba, ubu ni nk’aho najye nabaye umusirikare, ngomba gukoresha imbunda yanjye».

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Yee, nkagira ngo noneho, nihe akajambo nakwita aka rurangiza, uri umukobwa, ariko «uratona» kuri bariyeri. Uzi ibibazo by’intambara biva kukudahuza ibitsina, ndavuga kuba umwe ari umuhungu undi ari umukobwa, muri ako kazi ufite kuri bariyeri nta bibazo uterwa n’uko waba uri umukobwa wenyine w’umwangavu kuri bariyeri, ibibazo wagirana n’abo mukorana, baba abasore b’urubyiruko, baba abasirikare, baba abantu ukontrola kuri bariyeri, nta bibazo ubona kuba uri igitsina gore ukirirwa kuri bariyeri amanywa n’ijoro, nta bibazo bigutera?

Speaker: Marie-Claire KAYIRANGE

Yego, njyewe icyo kibazo mumbajije ndabona nta kibazo bintera, kuko umu… niba ari n’umusirikari… reka mpere ku musirikari, ntashobora kuza ngo abone ndimo kurya umwanda nk’uko na we awurya ngo atinyuke kugira ibintu ambwira. Abo bahungu na bo twiriranwa nabaye nka mushiki wabo, umuntu mwiriranwa, musigana… mbese bun kantu kose, musangira utwo mutoraguye hasi n’uduki, ntabwo na we ashobora kukuzanaho ibyo bintu. Niba na bo n’abafite uwo mutima bari… babitekerezaga, ibyo bumva ko turi ku rugamba, tutari mu ntambara y’ibyo nk’uko twabibagamo mbere, bagombye kuba babishyize ku ruhande, bagakurikira ikirimo kubabuza umutekano, kubahungabanya.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Yee, ubu rero ndagira ngo nongere nguhe akajambo ka nyuma, navuze ko uri umukobwa kuri iriya bariyeri, kandi ntabwo kuri bariyeri dukunze kuhabona abakobwa benshi, mama wagira bagenzi bawe muri ibi bihe turimo ni iyihe?

Speaker: Marie-Claire KAYIRANGE

Mama nagira bagenzi banjye ni uko na bo bashobora kujya mu masegiteri yabo bakisunganya, bakajya kwiga imyitozo ya gisirikare, mbese bun muntu were akagira ubutwari bwo kurwana n’umwanzi. Ibintu… n’ubu hari nk’abantu b’abakobwa benshi bakunze kujya bambona, nk’ubu ejo sinzi umuntu wart wandobesheje ampa imbunda, ugasanga barimo kuvuga ngo «ariko se ngo uriya yabyigiye he»? Kandi nta gihe ntigeze mvuga ko bagomba kuza tukajya kwigana imbunda, ariko baranga, baravuga bati «buriya baba bateze ko bazajya bahabwa n’ umugabo gusa», kandi umugabo wenyine mudafatanije na we nta cyo yakumarira muri ibi bihe. Icyo nababwira cyo ni uko bagiye ba… mbese bagaha morali abagabo babo cyangwa se n’urubyiruko, aho kugira ngo babace intege nyine, ba… akafata wenda nk’umusirikare, ati «ngwino», umusirikare bakajya mu nzu, icyo gihe na we ashobora kuba an umugore w’icyitso, nk’umusirikare yarambika imbunda hasi, umugore sinzi ya… ashobora kumute… mbese ni nka feuille, ashobora kumutera feuille ubu abantu b’Inkotanyi nta wabashobora bafite amayeri menshi, ya mbunda bakayijyana, wa musirikare bakamugandagurira aho ngaho. Icyo nababwira cyo ni uko bagomba kwitondera n’abagore basigaye kandi bariho, uwumva… ntabwo twese ari ko dufite kurwana ino ntambara, ku bagore. Hariho uwifitiye umutima we n’undi uwe. None rero ndabwira abo basirikari, cyangwa n’izo Nterahamwe, mbese abantu bafite imbunda bose, ko izo mbunda ari izo kurwana, atari izo kujyana mu mago y’abantu gusahura, kwa maraya, mbese ahantu nk’aho ngaho.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Murakose. Uwo mwumvaga rero ni… KAYIRANGE Marie-Claire, umukobwa w’umwangavu wiyemeje gutona kuri bariyeri hariya ku Muhima, umukobwa watonnye mu mwobo iminsi itatu mu Gatenga, akaba rero KAYIRANGE Marie-claire asaba bagenzi be, abasirikare, urubyiruko, bagenzi be b’abakobwa gutona, noneho ati mtimukarangazwe n’iby’iyi ati turwane rero, intambara nirangira iby’iyi si bizaba bigira igihe cyabyo». Marie-Claire rero ndagushimiye, ukomeze utone.

Nshuti mutwumva rem… ubwo KAYIRANGE ariko ati «GAHIGI unsuhurize ababyeyi banjye, him! Reka… reka mbese nku… ubisuhurize ubwawe.

Speaker: Marie-Claire KAYIRANGE

Ndasu… ndasuhuza umubyeyi wanjye uri i Rwinkwavu muri Komine KAYONZA witwa BAMURANGE Mariya, na barumuna banjye n’umugabo we witwa MBANZABUGABO niba bakiriho, mubabwire bakomere, kandi niba baritabye Imana, Imana ibahe iruhuko ridashira, nanjye ndi kurya umwanda Kano i Kigali, ndacyariho.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Ok. Ubwo murakore rero, hanyuma dukomeze twumva akazika, KAYIRANGE ariko ati kuri izo bariyeri turiho, dufite ikibazo cy’imbunda», ariko ubwo Konseye wabo, ubwo n’abandi babishinzwe bazareba icyo kibazo bakibigire, hanyuma… mukomeze mutone nyine kuri bariyeri.

Speaker: NKOMATI, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Saa kumi n’imwe zirenzeho iminota makumyabiri n’itanu muri blindé ya R.T.L.M., mwakurikiranye ibiganiro rwose ndakeka, si ugikeka ndahamya neza ko buri wese yishimiye ubutwari, nk’ubu ngubu ubutwari bw’uyu mukobwa Marie-Claire ujya kuri bariye, yee… agatinyuka, akumva ko ashobora kuharara, akihanganira umubu, akihanganira imbeho kugeza mu gitondo, akumva ko nta bwoba afite, ee… aterwa na… na basaza be, ba… bararana kuri bariyeri, akumva ko mbese n’Inkotanyi «zibatatse» n’iyo mbunda rwose yabaro… yabasukaho umuriro. Him! Akabanyaba. Hari terme abasirikare bakunda gukoresha nyine, nk’iyo babonye akanyenzi cyangwa se utnnyenzi, iyo badusukaho umuriro nyine ngo «ni ukutunyaba». Him! Rwose… imyifatire nk’iyo, ee… ubushake nk’ubwo, iryo shyaka mu mutima, ndetse ukanarigaragaza mu bikorwa ni ikintu cyiza cyan. N’abandi bakobwa, izindi nkumi, him, babishoboye bafite imba… bafite imbaraba, bashobora kujya kuri bariyeri rwose, agashaka ahantu yakura ka grenade, agashaka ahantu yakura se imbunda, hanyuma akararana irondo n’abandi, akarara kuri bariyeri nk’ ababandi, akaha… akazihanganira iyo mbeho, akihanganira uwo mubu, him, ashobora kwambara se ipantalo agashyiraho ibitenge, agashaka ibipira bikomeye cyangwa se agashaka se… agashaka n’imyenda ya gisirikare. Hum! Ahantu yakura akahasasa cyangwa se ibi bya… izi za…[inaudible] by’abasirikare, hum, aka… hanyuma na we akarara kuri bariyeri rwose, hum, ni umuganda. Ni umuganda mu rwego rwo kunya… rwo kurwanya Inyenzi.

Ubwo rero nyine, ya… ni ukumushimira rwose nanjye ndamushimira rwose ubwo butwari yagize, ni urugero ku bandi, n’abandi bareberaho, bagaheraho hamyuma bakajya barara kuri bariyeri, cyangwa se bakarara mu marondo, bakarara bakorana na basaza babo.

Na… gusa… hari ikintu yavuze ati «wenda uwo ari we wese urubyiruko cyangwa se umusirikare wananirwa kujya kurwana, hanyuma agata urugamba cyangwa se akajya aho agomba kujya, aho ategetswe, akarara abuza abandi amahoro, yirukanka mu ngo z’abandi ngo arashaka abakobwa, arashaka abagore, cyangwa se ngo arashaka amayoga, cyangwa se akirirwa mu kabari kuva mu gitondo kugeza ninjoro», ibyo nyine ni u… ni umwanda. Ibyo ntabwo ari byo rwose. Ni byo… umuntu nk’uwo ntabwo arasobanukirwa akazi ke, ntabwo azi icyo akora, ntabwo azi ikintu ashobora gukora, icyo ategetswe gukora. Uwo rero rwose ni wa mukobwa umwe utukisha abandi, ni rwa rukumbi mu… mbese sinzi ukuntu nabivuga. Gusa… abantu nk’abo ni abantu bagomba rwose… gucika ku ngeso zabo, kuko ni bibi turabya… twarabyamaganye, turacyabyamagana, tuzabyamagana.

Ndagira ngo twumze rero indirimbo nziza twabateguriye, indirimbo nyine zisanzwe kuri radiyo yacu, radiyo R.T.L.M.…[interruption].

Ngo reka… ngo reka, ngo iki, reka da! Him! Aho ibintu bigeze, abantu rwose ni ukurushaho kuba maso, him, kuko umwanzi nyine na we ni ko arushaho guhindura uburyo bwo kwinjira aho atabashije kugera cyangwa se kwinjiza ibintu. Hum! Imodoka izo ari zo zose nta wazishira amakenga, ni ukuzisaka, ariko kandi mwirinde guhohotera abantu. Birinde rwose gukereza abantu nta mpamvu. Nka bariyeri zikirangwaho abasinzi, abo basinzi bose bari bakwiye kuva kuri bariyeri burundu, kandi bagahanwa ku buryo bw’intangarugero. Abantu bafata imbunda ngo kubera ko afite imbunda bakajya gushaka abagore bo gusambanya ku ngufu, cyangwa se abakobwa bo gusambanya ku ngufu, ibyo bintu… uwo ni umwanda. Umuntu nk’uwo nguwo yari akwiye gufatwa, imbunda akayamburwa kandi agahabwa igihano, akanirukanwa muri uyu mujyi rwose, kuko nta… ibyo ntabwo ari ukurwana. Imbunda bayimuhereye kugira ngo arwanye umwanzi. Umwanzi se ni nde? Ikindi, abantu bakiha kujya kwica abandi. Kujya kwicana. Cyangwa se birirwa «bamenasa» abandi, babatera ubwoba, cyangwa bababwira nabi. Niba an icyitso, niba ari Inyenzi, niba ari… inkoramaraso, uwo nguwo afatwe nk’umwanzi. Ariko se ku… ibintu bya règlement de compte, niba umuntu ataragutumiye ya… yagize ubukwe, cyangwa se ataragusomeje inzoga mu kabari, cyangwa se ataragize gute, iki ntabwo ari igihe cyabyo cyo gu… ubu ngubu turarwana n’Inyenzi, umwanzi. Nk’uko mukunze kubyumva mu ijambo rya Ministre w’Intebe rikunze kunyura kuri Radiyo Rwanda nyuma y’amakuru, umwanzi, umwanzi ni Inyenzi, ni F.P.R. Ntabwo umwanzi ari umuturanyi cyangwa utaragutumiye yakoresheje ubukwe.

Reka dukomeze twumva indirimbo nziza yumvikana hano kuri R.T.L.M. …irenzeho iminota mirongo itanu n’ibi hano i Kigali, i saa kumi n’ebyiri zirabura iminota umunani, nshuti mutwumva ubusanzwe n’ ubundi duhagarika ibiganiro byacu kuri iyo saha.

Ndagira ngo ntumikire ee… uwitwa NTIBARIKURE Gabriel. NTIBARIKURE Gabriel ukora mu ishuri rikuru rya gisirikare muri E.S.M, aramenyesha HABYARIMANA Gregori ukora muri OPROVIA ku Kicukiro, ko umugore w’uwo NTIBARIKURE niba akiriho yamumenyesha aho yaba yarahungiye. Asabye kandi uwumvishe iri tangazo wese amuzi ko yabimumenyesha byihutirwa. Yari… NTIBARIKURE Kano aravuga mu rurimi rw’igifaransa, ashobora kuba hail ikintu ashaka kubagezaho muri urwo rurimi, ndagira go mumwumve.

Speaker: NTIBARIKURE

Merci, NKOMATI, merci de m’avoir prêté la parole pour m’adresser a… m’adresser a mes amis francophones et francophiles parce que vous savez… vous êtes sans ignorer que ca fait assez longtemps que je n’apparais plus sur les ondes de la radio, de votre radio, la Radio télévision libre des mille collines, parce que évidemment j’ai essuyé des tics des Inyenzi, mais c’est pas trts grave, je suis dans une… [interruption].

End of Side A

Side B

Speaker: Unidentified

… [inaudible]

Speaker: ABIYINGOMA Epimaque

…[inaudible] mu nama zikabanza zikababaza ziti «ese ari twebwe Inkotanyi n’abasirikare b’u Rwanda, abantu beza ni bande? Kubera amatakirangoyi abaturage bamwe bakavuga bati «ni mwebwe Bantu beza ku ngabo z’u Rwanda», ariko mu by’ukuri ari ukugira ngo barebe yuko bahivana. Ay’ubusa rero, bapfa kubyemera gutyo ariko inama yarangira Inkotanyi zikabarasa amaguru, bakikubita hasi zarangiza zikarasa imitwe… [inaudible] aho ngaho. Si ibyo gusa ugize amahirwe …[inaudible], zikabafata, zigahambira amaboko inyuma, zikabarega agatuza, zikabakubira agafuni mu mutwe…[inaudible] aho ngaho.

…[inaudible] basanga Abatutsi ari bake, bati «abandi Batutsi bagiye hehe»? Ubwo zigahera ruhande rero zikica zivuga ngo zirahorera bene wabo bishwe muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda. Gusa muri ako gace ka… Byumba, muri rusange amakomini atarabereyemo imirwano, ni Komine Rutare, ni Muhura, ni Murambi, ayo makomi… ee… n’agace ka… Buyoga na Kinyami, ayo makomine rwose zararimarimye, uretse gusa Komine Giti ni yo yari ifite agahenge, kubera yuko iyo Komine ee… kugeza ubu. Kugeza ubu nta subiranamo ry’amoko ryigeze ngo ribayo, ku buryo n’iyo urebye hail amasegiteri amwe n’amwe usanga mu by’ukuri Abatutsi baruta Abahutu, ku buryo n’iyo bashaka no kwisubiranamo ahari usanga Abahutu an bo badagazwe, ee… na Burgmestre w’ iyo Komine ubu ngubu zaramufashe, zamusanze mu kigunda aho yari yihishe aho ngaho rero ho ntabwo zahereye ruhande nk’uko wenda… ntizabigenje nk’uko zakoze muri Rutare ngo zihere ruhande zigende zirasarasa uwo ari we wese zidatoranije, ni ho zigenda zikoresha agatoki k’Abatutsi bagenda batunga umuntu, bati « Runaka uyu nguyu yari mu ishyaka iri n’iri, yari muri C.D.R, yari muri M.R.N.D, yari Interahamwe, Naka uyu nguyu yari atunze imbunda, Naka uyu nguyu…» ndetse wenda mwaba mufite nk’ikintu mwapfaga gusa mwifitiye inzangano wenda ku giti cyanyu, akagenda agatunga urutoki Inkotanyi zikaza zikakuvanaho.

Naho aho ee…ayo makomine yandi navuze ku… Giti, Giti ni yo batahereye iruhande na ho ubwicanyi burahari, burakabije barica abasore, barica abantu ba… bari bafite abasirikare, ariko ho kugeza ubu ngubu bari batarahera ruhande. N’abo ngabo twasize i Rutare bashyize mu nkambi, nta wamenya niba ubu ngubu bakiriho, niba batariho simbizi, nta wamenya, bo ha… na bo bapfuye kujyayo ari ugushoberwa, kuko bagendaga bahera ruhande, bahera ruhande. Ni uko mbese bimeze.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Nshuti mutwumva iki kiganiro reka tugihagarire… tugihagarikire hang, ee… ndabona hariya inyuma hari akandi kabazo.

Speaker: Epimaque ABIYINGOMA

Hari akandi kantu nashakaga kubongereraho, ni uko wenda… nagira ngo… niba Burugumestre wa Komine Rutare akiriho, kuko na we numvise bavuga yuko yaba yarambutse, yashoboye kuba yarambutse Muhazi, bamwe bagakeka ko wenda ashobora kuba ari hakurya ya Muhazi cyangwa se nta wamenya kugeza ubu ngubu kuva yahunga nta wamenya agace yaba arimo, n’abaturage ubwo ngubwo baheze mu gihirahiro, n’ushobora gutoroka ahunga ntabwo amenya aho ahungira, kuko mu by’ukuri ntabwo umuntu yavuga ngo abaturage bo muri Rutare bajya kwiha kurwana n’Inkotanyi ntabwo babishobora, ubwo byaba byiza yuko na we ya… yaba akinho, ko yazaza nko kuri radiyo, agakora ka déclaration abaturage bakamenya aho ari, akareba ko hashyikirana n’inzego za Prefegitire, bakavuga wenda aho umuntu aramutse atorotse Inkotanyi aziciyemo ahantu yasanga ubutegetsi, aho baba bari, kugeza ubu ngubu n’ uhunga aragenda an mu gihirahiro, ntamenye ahantu ajya, ntamenye ahantu ajya, ntamenye aho asanga umutegetsi, ntamenye aho agira ate, ndetse ubwo na we aramutse ariho, akiriho nasaba yuko yazaza… yaza hano muri studio hano, cyangwa se kuri Radio Rwanda akagira icyo yavuga, tukamenya ariko, cyangwa se uyu na we akagira icyo… [inaudible].

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Murakoze, nagira ngo rero mbashimire, abo bantu twaganiriye, abo mwumvise hari ABIYINGOMA Epimaque, Assistant Bourgmestre, Assistant Bourgmestre wa Komine Rutare. Hanyuma na HABIYAMBERE Cyriaque akaba ari umuturage wakomotse muri Komine Buyoga aho yahunze Inkotanyi, abo bantu rero umuntu yabita abarame cyangwa twabita ba Bikiramacumu, mwagize Imam murarusimbuka, tukaba tukaba tubifurije rem kurama, hanyuma… ubwo mukomere, nshuti mutwumva rero iki kiganiro tugihagarikire aha ngaha, mwiyumviye namwe ubogome bw’Inkotanyi, kurundarunda abantu ngo zirabakoresha Mama, zarangiza zikabacucuma, mwumvise uko zihambira abantu amaboko, zikayabohera inyuma, zikabarega agatuza, zarangiza zikabakubita agafuni, mwiyumviye ukuntu zigenda zirasa zihereye ruhande mu makomine, ngo zihorera Abatutsi bapfuye muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda, mwiyumviye ikindi kintu cyatuma abantu ba… bagira akanyabugabo, ko izo Nkotanyi ibyo ari byo byose atari nyinshi, ahubwo gusa zifite amayeni yo kugenda zirasa, zikusanya abantu, zikora ikirongo, icyo kirongo abaturage bakibona bakagira ngo ni igitero simusiga cy’Inkotanyi, ariko ari abaturage zashyize ku murongo, zikagenda zibikoreje imifuka, noneho zikabivangamo, uzibonye akiruka, mwumvise n’ aho aba bantu twakwita abarame, ABIYINGOMA Epimaque na HABIYAMBERE Cyriaque ko aho banyuze hose batabonye Inkotanyi nyinshi, ahubwo ari ebyiri ebyiri zigenda zirasa, zi… kanga abaturage, zibirukansa, mwiyumviye ko ABIYINGOMA Epimaque yivugiye ubwe ko habonetse abasore bakamenya imbunda, bakabona imyitozo ya gisirikare bakunganira abaturage ko abandi na bo bashobora guhangana n’Inkotanyi. Ubu rero ubwo Inkotanyi ziyemeje intambara, ni uguhangana na zo koko. Ubwo rero abagiye bacika ku icumu bakabona ibintu uko byagenze, bakabona amarorerwa uko yakozwe muri utwo turere, bakwiye kujya batugeraho koko bakatubwira uko byagenze.

Nshuti mutwumva rero, mumfashe nshimire umufasha wa Bourgmestre ABIYINGOMA Epimaque, Assistant-Bourgmestre wa Komine Rutare, na HABIYAMBERE Cyriaque wakomotse muri Buyoga ahunga Inkotanyi za Muhura, za Giti, hanyuma akaba Imana imugejeje Kano, lmana rero ikomeze ibarinde, kandi bakomeze nyine biyumvire umuzika.

[Musique].

Speaker: MBILIZI MULONDA Philippe

…[inaudible].

End of Side B