Information
Date of Transmission15 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/6
Name of TranscriberPénine-Joie Muteteli
Date of Transcription9 February 2000
Duration90 Minutes
QualitySide B Poor
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0006

Side A

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

00:03

…nimubarwaneho n’ibikoresho byanyu mufite, imyambi murayifite, amacumu, nimuhige izo Nkotanyi ziva amaraso, ziva amaraso namwe mukava andi. Aho kugira ngo umuntu agutware ibyawe mwabi…mwabipfiramo, ya…wabigwamo. Nimufate rero ibikoresho byanyu bya gakondo, nimwegere ingabo z’u Rwanda, nimwitoze kugira ngo nimubona ibikoresho mwirukanke murwane ku byanyu mukuremo izo nkenya z’Inkotanyi.

Na none ku byerekeye abantu bahunze Kigali, abantu bahunze Kigali mu by’ukuri nk’abari muri stade i Gitarama, nk’abari i Runda, abo bantu ndakeka yuko ababa…ababishinzwe, ababishinzwe abashinzwe ibyo bigo by’impunzi nibafate abo bantu bababwire basubire mu byabo i Kigali bafatanye n’abandi kurwana intambara. Naho ubundi se cyangwa nit atange itegeko ibyabo byose bifatwe bijyanwe, kuko abo bantu ni ibigwari ntabwo mu by’ukuri bakunda igihugu kuko ukunda igihugu ni ukirwanirira.

Ni cyo gituma abantu bakomeje kwibaza bati mu bintu by’ibihuha nyine abantu bazana, ngo murabizi…, e…ndetse na FPR-Inkotanyi ikunda kubikoresha ivuga ngo ingabo z’u Rwanda ngo izari mu…i Byumba, ngo izari i Kibungo ngo zasanze Inkotanyi. Noneho kugira ngo bitere ubwoba nyine abantu bumve ko ingabo z’Inkotanyi ziyongereye cyan, zagize zite. Ibyo rero ni ibihuha bitagira ishingiro, ingabo ee…ingabo zone z’u Rwanda ziri ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda ahubwo ingabo z’Inkotanyi z’Abahutu ni zo zatangiye kujya zisanga ingabo z’u Rwanda, ku buryo rero nyine ubu ngubu ku ruhande rumwe hari ingabo z’u Rwanda, ku rundi ruhande hakaba ingabo z’agatsiko k’Abatutsi bigize ibyihebe bibwira ko bazafata u Rwanda ku ngufu bakirukanamo Abahutu benshi (il tousse) noneho cyaba ngombwa bakarwomeka ku Bugande (Uganda). Ibyo rero ni ukwibeshya ku buryo bukomeye.

Ku byerekeye rero ibyo ngibyo byo ku…ibyo bits désertion, byo ku…byo kuva mu gisirikare ugahunga, twavuze yuko abasirikare badafite permission, badafite uruhusa rwanditse bakaba birirwa mu giturage bidegembya barimwo bacunga ibyo basahuye, nimubake impapuro muzirebeho, nimubake impapuro muzirebeho murebe koko ko basinyiwe niba batarasinyiwe nimubashyikirize ubutegetsi, nimubakubite, nimuba…nimubamerere nabi kuko ntacyo ba…ntacyo ba…nta kamaro bamaze ni ukwirirwa biba abaturage. Abo bantu rero nimubamerere nabi cyan, abasirikare bavuye mu ngabo batabifitiye uburenganzira.

02:07

Ikindi kandi, ikindi kandi, mu by’ukuri nk’uko bikorwa mu Nkotanyi, nk’uko bikorwa mu Nkotanyi, mu Nkotanyi igituma mubona nka kariya kagabo ko hakurya ku Gisozi kihambye ku mbunda kakayizirikaho, igituma mubona kariya kantu ko ku Kicukiro kakirasa kandi an ko gasigaye konyine hagati y’abantu ba…ba…bakanga ni uko mu Nkotanyi nta wusubira inyuma, nta wusubira inyuma barakubita, ni songa mbere mpaka Nyamijosi. Usubiye inyuma baramwica, mu ngabo z’u Rwanda na ho bigomba kuba ibyo kuko nta kundi byagenda niba umwanzi an yo tactique akoresha yuko usubiye inyuma bamwica, no mu ngabo z’u Rwanda ni uko bigomba kugenda. Niba umuntu asubiye inyuma nta mpamvu akiruka agata imbunda ni ukumuhiga mpaka bamwishe kuko uwo muntu ni umugambanyi nta gukorera nta…ntabwo arwanira igihugu. Ni ukuvuga rero za désertions…, uretse ko nta n’azi…nta n’izihari mn ngabo z’u Rwanda ni zo mana, ariko rero utaye imbunda hasi an umusirikare w’u Rwanda yariyemeje kurwanirira u Rwanda ni ukuraswa nta kundi uwo nguwo ntacyo amaze ntacyo amariye igihugu niba adashobora kwitangira igihugu, niba adashobora kwitangira urwamubyaye kandi abona na none imbere ye hart abana b’Abatutsi bavuga bati “1’1 gihugu mpaka tukigarurire.” Wowe ukaba uri umwana w’Umuhutu ugata imbunda ukiruka, uu…uu…wiruka se ugana he? Ujya he? Ko bazagushaka n’umuryango wanyu bakawutsemba.

Rwana rem ku gihugu cyawe, rwana ku muryango wawe, rwana ku bawe nano ubundi kwiruka igihugu ukakimaza amaguru ngo ugiye kureba aho ujya kwihisha i Cyangugu ngo wibe urye iby’ubusa ngo wari umusirikare nta kamaro, nibagufata bajye bakwica kuko nta kintu uba umaze. Ibyo ngibyo bigomba kumvikana, no muri FPR-Inkotanyi ni ko babigenza. Ni cyo gituma umuntu “atona” akajya ku mbunda akayisaziraho nta “kwiropliya” mpaka bayimutsinzeho. Uretse ko abenshi baba ari ibimuga cyangwa se abantu barwaye SIDA bavuga bati ibyo an byo byose ee…nta kundi, ntacyo ukimaze guma aha kuri iyi mbunda ukomeze utere abantu ubwoba.

Ni uko bakarasa, bakarasa wapi ntahave barangiza “bakiropliya” ngo ni ikintu gikomeye naho ubwo ni ikimuga kiri aho ngaho ku mbunda, imbunda na yo y’ ikimuga ni uko noneho kikatera. ubwoba gusa.

04:07

Mu Nkotanyi rero nta wusubira inyuma, no mu ngabo z’u Rwanda nta wugomba gusubira inyuma ntibishoboka agomba guhashya umwanzi byanze bikunze umwanzi agapfa cyangwa se undi agapfa ubundi usubiye inyuma ku buryo butumvikana akicwa kuko nta kundi, ntacyo aba amaze, ntacyo aba amariye igihugu.

05:01

Ubwo rero, e…aho kugira ngo utunge abantu baca abandi intege biruka e…basahura bagira gute, ibyiza ni uko wabica bikarangira noneho abo bantu bakavaho bakibagirana hagasigara abana b’u Rwanda koko bemera kururwanirira. Nguko uko ibintu bimeze n’icyo umwanzi akoresha, iyo umwanzi ameze atyo rem ee…ugomba nawe gukoresha iyo tactique kuko nta wa…nta mpamvu umwanzi yaza avuga ati “songa mbere,” hanyuma noneho mu ngabo zawe wowe hakavamo abavuga ngo songa nyuma, ibyo bintu ntabwo byashoboka birumvikana yuko abantu bahita batsindwa ako kanya kandi bitari ngombwa.

Ku byerekeye Guverinoma y’Abatabazi, abantu bakomeje kuvuga byinshi bavuga bati “ese Guverinoma y’Abatabazi bite? Ese izahera i Gitarama? Bizagenda gute”?

Mu by’ukuri abantu bamwe baravuga bati “ibyo ari byo byose abo bantu b’abatabazi ni ba…ngo ni ba Ministres, nibaze ba…[inaudible]i Kigali batere abaturage inkunga, batere abasirikare inkunga n’abakozi bababone. Baze ba…bajye muri “blinde” bakoreremo bumve ibisasu uko biturika, nibiba ngombwa koko umunsi wagize bavuga bati Inkotanyi yenda hari iziyahuye zigeze aha n’ aha, babahungishe icyo gihe. Ariko ubundi bakomeje bariya.

Ibyo ari byo byose abandi na bo bakomeje kuvuga bati “ibyo si byo ngombwa.” Guverinoma y’Abatabazi nikwire hirya no hino, mu macuti badushakire imbunda, badushakire ibikoresho, badushakire umubano hanyuma noneho turwane n’Inkotanyi kabisa ubundi ibindi byose babyihorere aho bakorera si ngombwa.

Nizere rero yuko mu by’ukuri aho bari i Gitarama bakora batiriwe bikingiranira mu mazu, batiriwe bakira amacuti n’amacutikazi yabo, batiriwe bagira Bute. Nizere ko koko bakora ako kazi, noneho abari i Kigali bakaba bari ku rugamba n’abandi bakaba bari i Gitarama ku rugamba atari ukuvuga gusa ngo njye ndi Ministre e…ngo mfuye byaba ari akaga. Ministre se apfuye bitwaye iki? Apfuye bitwaye lid ariko agapfira ku rugamba aha…aha inkunga Abanyarwanda kuri za bariyeri, aha inkunga abasirikare, aha morali abantu base. Icyo gibe koko yaba apfuye agize n’icyo apfira.

07:01

Birumvikana yuko uko byamera kose abajenjetse mu…biyita gusa ngo ni “Abaministre” bikitirirwa izina ubundi utamubona, ubundi utazi iyo aba, utazi icyo akora avuga gusa ngo hinga yenda ngo bizarangira ngo ndebe uko byarangira, ibintu nk’ibyo. ngibyo ntabwo t…ntabwo bizongera kuba ntibishoboka umuntu azajya abona umwanya ko yawukoreye kandi koko ko yerekanye icyo amaze muri iyi ntambara, apana kwihisha, kwihishahisha ubeshyabeshya uryarya n’utugambo tw’amafuti ibyo ngibyo byararangiye.

Tugomba kurwana n’Inkotanyi twese kandi koko umuntu akabona…umuntu akabona umuga…u…u…umuntu akabona icyo umuntu yakoze, umuntu akakireba koko. Akavuga ati umuntu yakoze iki, namubonye aha n’aha. tousse) Nk’ubwo “Abaministre” bagombye kunyura aho Inkotanyi zitari zagera bakajya ku mirenge, bakajya hehe, bakababwira bati mukomere, bakabigisha uko bakwepa Inkotanyi, bakazicira imihanda, bakazitera amacumu, koko bakakora. ibyo bintu bya campagnes nk’uko bakoze campagnes zo ku., gutuma abantu baticana, zo guhagarika ubwicanyi batakora noneho…bakajya inyuma aho Inkotanyi zitaragera bakumvisha abaturage ko batagomba guhunga igihugu cyabo ko nta handi u Rwanda ruri, bakumva ko…ntiwahungira Inkotanyi i Burundi abasirikare b’i Burundi bakwica, ntiwahungira Inkotanyi muri Zaire Inkotanyi zirahari, ntiwahungira Inkotanyi mu Bugande (Uganda) birumvikana, ntiwahungira Inkotanyi muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) eh, kuko zagusangayo.

Tumaze kumenya yuko n’abantu bahunze bava za…bava za Byumba, za Kibungo, aho hose bagiye noneho Inkotanyi zikajya muri Tanzaniya. (Tanzanie) zikagenda zibatunga agatoki tabu ngubu bakaba bafunze, muri abo bafunze hakaba harimo uwari Bourgmestre wa Murambi GATETE, ubwo amaherezo Inkotanyi zizamusanga mu buroko zimwice. Ibyo na none ni ibintu abategetsi bari bakwiye guhagurukira bakabwira Abanyatanzaniya yuko abanzi badukurikiranye hose ko bagomba kurekura abo Bantu kugira ngo.badapfira mu buroko. Ubwo ngubwo murumva yuko ibyo bintu Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) na yo igiye kudufata…idufatanyije n’umwanzi, birumvikana yuko twaba tugowe.

09:01

Ibyo rero birumvikana, abahungiye muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) Abatanzaniya bahise ba…babacuza utuntu twose twose bari bafite…bari bafite, iki. Birumvikana rero gu…aho guhunga njyewe mbona umuntu yapfira muri iki gihugu akarwana n’Inkotanyi, aho zigeze agasubira inyuma y’aho zivuye, bagakomeza bagakora amayida mpaka kugeza igihe Inkotanyi ziruhiye, naho ubundi na none nta buhungiro. Tugomba kurwana n’Inkotanyi tukazimara tukazitsemba, tukazisakuma muri iki gihugu tukazimara kuko nta buhungiro, nta buhungiro ntabwo, ntabwo, ntabwo. Aho kugira ngo rero abantu bansange mu kigo cy’impunzi bangandagure uko bashaka banyice urupfu rubi ntagifite umuheto wanjye, ntagifite icumu rwanjye, ntagifite umuhoro wanjye, naguma mu gihugu mpaka tukagundaguranirayo cyangwa bakantsinda ku rugamba, nubwo.ntajyana n’abasirikare mbatwaje ibiryo cyangwa se mbatwaje amasasu basi biraruta aho kugira ngo Inkotanyi zinsange mu bigo by’impunzi narahunze igihugu cyanjye, narahunze ibyanjye.

10:01

Ubwo rero, mu by’ukuri hano mu mujyi i Kigali ikintu twakwishimira ni uko kwicana no kwiba byahagaze. Kwicana no kwiba byarahagaze ku buryo rero ubu ngubu umuntu yavuga yuko dutangiye phase ya kabiri yo gutsinda intambara. Ni ukuvuga yuko dutangiye kugira discipline, dutangiye kugira discipline, dutangiye “kwikaruma”. Ubwo rero dutangiye “kwikaruma” ubu amahanga na yo agiye kujya abireba v…avuge ati koko bariya…bariya Bahutu bafite discipline tugomba kubumva tukabafasha, hnun. Ubwo rero mu by’ukuri ndakeka yuko ubwo dutangiye…ibyo kwicana no kwiba bihagaze ubu tugiye gutangira noneho phase ya kabiri ya discipline yo gutsinda Inkotanyi koko mu by’ukuri ku buryo bugaragara.

Hano hari umuntu wanyandikiye ambwira ati “Bwana Kantano mwaramutse”? Ati “ndagusaba ko mwambwirira Abayisilamu bake bari baratangiye kwishima ngo HARELIMANA…ngo Shehi HARELIMANA Abdul Karimu ngo azabazanira amajyambere none yabazaniye Katiyusha zisenya, ee…zisenya n’imisigiti.” Ati “ngayo rero amajyambere Shehe HARELIMANA Abdul Karimu mwene MAKONGORO abazaniye.” Ati “rero ubwo Abayisilamu mwese musubize amwe…amerwe mu isaho kuko nta kigenda nta kigenda nyine bariya Bahutu, bariya Bahutu n’abaguze ubwoko bagiye kwihamba mu Nkotanyi mu by’ukuri nta cyiza bashobora gutuzanira, nta na kimwe nta na kimwe.”

11:05

Aah! Uyu witwa AKIMANA Xavier ah…AKIMANA Saveri uba muri camp Kigali muri Bataillon de reconnaissance ararangisha muramu we François, ee…muramu we ku (bruit extérieur)…nzira abo bose ni abandi bazo. Iyo umuntu rero amaze kugira abanzi ba…bamurenze, bamurenze ubushobozi mu by’ukuri aba atangiye,. aba agiye gupfa. Nta kundi ubwo ngubwo bibs bimurangiriyeho.

Ku byerekeye rero aba (ii tousse), hari abantu bavuga bati “aah, mumaze kuvuga yuko e…muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) ban abantu bacu bafungiyeyo,” bati “nyabuneka Inkotanyi ni a…ni ingome, ni mbi, abo bantu zizabakurikirana zigende zigure zitange za bitugukwaha muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) abo bantu babicire mu buroko bamere nka Remy GAHUTU.” Bati “nyabuneka nimutabare abo bantu bahite bava mu buroko vuba vuba.”

12:03

(Aseka) Hanyuma rero muri bya bisasu, muri bya bisasu ee…e…Inkotanyi ziroha hirya no hino ewu…hino…hino uko zibonye. Nababwiye yuko ambassade ya Uganda yarasenyutse burundu, ambassade ya Uganda yarasenyutse burundu, hanyuma ambassade ya Kenya yarasenyutse burundu kubera Inkotanyi, ambassade e…none iyari isigaye ni ambassade ya Tanzaniya (Tanzania) none bayiroshyeho igisasu n’Abatanzaniya babiri bapfiramo. Urumva na none izo ni Inkotanyi zibahekura, murumva ko nta kintu zisiga. Ambassade ya, u…ya Tanzaniya (Tanzania) na yo kwaheri.

Hanyuma…. ubwo rero murumva yuko Inkotanyi nyine n’abitwa ngo ni amacuti yazo, n’abitwa ngo ni iki, nta bantu t…nta bintu zisiga, inzu ya Kanyarengwe yararimbutse hasigaye iya BIZIMUNGU Pasiteri. Ubwo murumva nyine yuko Inkotanyi nta kintu zibabarira, nta kintu zisiga, ni abanzi mbese b’igihugu, ni abanzi ba…ba…ni abanzi si, ni abanzi b’ikiremwamuntu ku buryo mbese ibihugu byose bikwiye kubamagana uretse Ubuganda (Uganda) nyine bwo

burabashyigikiye cyane. Mu kanya mugenzi wanjye GAHIGI Gaspard araza kubabwira ijambo Umukoloneli w’Umugande yavugiye muri Université ya Makere re ejobundi, muraza kumva ukuntu yavuganiye Inkotanyi avuga ngo Abagande nibahaguruke ngo baze gupfira mu Rwanda ngo bapfire Inkotanyi ngo kuko ngo na zo zabapfiriye zirwanya IDDI AMINI.

13:07

Maze rero murumva nyine yuko e…iyi ntambara turwana n’Abagande ibyo ari byo byose tugomba kuyitsinda byanze bikunze. Icyo gihe Abagande bari bavuze bati “ntibishoboka nta kuntu abasirikare bacu bajya mu Rwanda gutera u Rwanda,” noneho e…uwo musirikare nyine araba…araba…. arabagurukana ngo “ntibishoboka” ngo “aba ngaba baradupfiriye,” ngo “ni bo batumye tugera ku butegetsi” ngo “none nitujye kubaha ubutegetsi.”

Ntabwo bishoboka, erega ibyo ntacyo bimaze, nubwo batsinda gisirikare ariko ntibishoboka yuko…, gutsinda gisirikare na byo simbona ukuntu byagenda, ukuntu byashoboka ahubwo Abagande bashirira mu gihugu ariko rero nta butegetsi na bukeya bashobora guha Inkotanyi kuko mu Rwanda ibintu byarahindutse rubanda nyamwinshi ni yo ifite ijambo. Ntaho rero twebwe…Abanyarwanda ntaho duhuriye n’Abagande.

14:05

Ubwo rero kuvuga ngo wabaha ubutegetsi nk’uko Museveni yabufashe mu Bagande ee…i Kampala uriya Muhima, ntabwo ino bishobora ku…kub…kubaho kuko rubanda nyamwinshi iravuga iti “ntabwo dushaka Inkotanyi ntituzikunda ntidushaka ko zidutegeka ahubwo bakazihunga.” Ubwo rero birumvikana yuko…wafata se umujyi ngo hanyuma Inkotanyi ize kereka u Rwanda ruje guturwamo n’Abagande nano Abanyarwanda bo ntabwo bashaka Inkotanyi.

Ku byerekeye rero aha mu mujyi wa Kigali za pharmacies zatangiye gukora, mu kanya Pharmacie du peuple, Pharmacie du peuple ni hariya imbere ya TRAFIPRO, Pharmacie du peuple ni imbere ya TRAFIPRO. Iyo Pharmacie rero yatangiye gukora irakora kuva saa mbiri kugeza saa sita. Hanyuma rero mwihute mugure imiti mwe kurwara ngo mupfire mu nzu, murebe uko mwagura uduti aho ngaho muri Pharmacie du peuple yakinguye, iri imbere ya TRAFIPRO mu mujyi wa Kigali.

Hanyuma…hanyuma by’umwihariko rero ndasaba abantu bo muri ORINFOR, ndasaba abantu bo muri ORINFOR Ciné-photo, ibyo bits Ciné-photo, aho nizere ko BAZAMPENDA yumva, kwihutira kuza mu mujyi kugira ngo bakingure bakuremo ibintu e. kubera ko igisasu cyaguye ku nzu, cyaguye ku nzu cyarayishwanyuje yose Ciné-photo ku buryo rero nyine Inkotanyi zibasiye itangazamakuru. Ciné-photo sinzi ko bazongera gufotora, ubwo rero nibatabare baze barebe ko…kubera ko igisenge cyose cyavuyeho imvura niramuka iguye ibintu byose birimo bizabora. Abantu rero bo muri Ciné-photo batabare ibintu byabo kubera ko igisenge cyose cyavuyeho inzu yose yarashwanyutse. Ubwo rero nibatabare baze barebe ko hari utwo bakizamo, bazane imfunguzo bakingure ibiro cyangwa se babyice bakuremo ibintu barebe a…aho babirundanya barebe aho babishyira.

Nguko uko ibintu bimeze rero, abategera. mu mujyi ntibazi amazu yasenyutse uko a…uko ameze. Ariko rero nyine nababwira yuko Inkotanyi umujyi zawugize itongo. Ariko ntacyo bitwaye dufite amaboko tuzubaka, niba Museveni yaravuze ngo umujyi wa Kigali bawugire nka Kampala, Kampala yabaye igiporogosho, ibyo bashenye kera byabananiye kubisana. Kampala ni umujyi washize, Masaka ni umujyi washize, Mbarara ntikibaho, Kabale wapi. Niba rero an ibyo…ibintu by’ishyari, Museveni ati…ati “ntihakabe umujyi mwiza i Kigali kandi uwanjye warashize.” Ibyo bintu bivanze n’ishyari ntacyo umujyi wacu tuzawubaka, tuzawubaka cya…SOMECA yarashize, be…Banque commerciale ruguru yarashize mbese mu by’ukuri Inkotanyi nyine zatwangirije umujyi ariko ntacyo bitwaye tuzubaka, tuzubaka byanze bikunze. Tuzubaka umujyi wacu twongere tuwugire mwiza.

16:09

Nongere nibutse rero abantu bo mud Ciné-photo, nka BAZAMPENDA n’abandi ba photographes ba MUNYANTORE Seth hariya kuza mu mujyi kureba inzu yabo urwo yabonye, yarashize burundu, yarashize burundu. Ubwo rero baze bakunganye ibintu birimo barebe aho babyanurira naho ubundi imvura nigwa nta na kimwe bazasanga kandi mu by’ukuri uretse ko byuzuyeho ibinonko n’ibintu by’i…byasenyaguritse byose, ariko ubundi bare ibyo umuntu yaterura akareba ko yakiza noneho bakazareba ko yenda bazongera gufotora ariko rero nibatabare.

Hanyuma…hanyuma a…hano mu kanya nari ndimo ndeba inyandiko y’umugabo Paul MBARAGA, Paul MBARAGA nyine ahantu…kubera ko ari i Burayi (Europe) muri Deutsche Welle, ahantu nyine uwitwa Willy CLAES, Willy CLAES ni Urnubiligi, uwo Mubiligi rero yaravugaga ago “vous savez qu’au Rwanda it y a une minorité Tutsie qui a besoin d’étre protégée.” Mwumve uwo mu Mlnistre Bubiligi (Belgique)! Hnin! Ngo aje kugira ago abaz…ngo arashaka kurinda Abatutsi naho ubwo ni ukugira ngo Abatutsi bamare Abahutu.

18:00

Umunyamakuru witwa Simoni RAYMOND, Simoni RAYMOND we hano handitsemo amasengesho ye ngo a…asengera FPR ngo itsinde, ni Umubiligi uwo nguwo. Arimo arasengera FPR ago itsinde “pour nettoyer…pour nettoyer le Rwanda.” Aah! Aah! Aho murumva mwo kagira Imam, mwe! Nettoyer ni ukuvuga gusukura, ni nko gufata za karoti ukazozaho e…ni nko gufata ibijumba ukabironga, hun! Mbese gukuraho umwanda. Ndakeka yuko uwo munyamakuru we avuga ati FPR igakuraho umwanda w’Abahutu, kandi ni ko koko mu by’ukuri ahenshi byagenze.

Murumva rero abo banyamakuru b’Ababiligi ko mu by’ukuri ntacyo tubizeyeho, ntacyo tubitezeho, nta cyiza cyava mu Babiligi ku buryo nyine umwanzi arakaba Umubiligi, ubwo nta kundi kundi ni ukumufata uko ari, Umubiligi ni umwanzi nta kindi.

Ubwo rero hagati aho mfite n’i…tangazo by’ibyangombwa byatakaye. lbyo byangombwa rero ni iby’umuntu witwa [inaudible]…

19:00

[inaudible]agiye kugira icyo avuga ku kiganiro nimugoroba umugabo witwa KOUCHNER yaraye ag…akoreye…akoranye n’umunyamakuru wa Radiyo Rwanda, heir! Mu kiganiro yavuze nyine yigisha, atanga amasomo agira ate ngo yabonye ngo abagore ngo birukankana abandi n’imihoro ariko ntakavuge, ntakarebe ukuntu FPR ishahura, yica, igira ite hirya no hino nyine ku buryo usanga a…an akaga nyine, ku buryo Abazungu ntabwo barasobanukirwa na gato. Baza bafite ibintu by’Inkotanyi mu mutwe gusa byonyine ugasanga ni zo baza baburanira zarabagize ba avocats, ariko ntibamenye ibikorerwa ku wadi ruhande na byo ago babyamagane. Ugasanga rero ibyo bintu Abazungu rwose kugira ngo umuntu azabibakuremo biruhije, ariko rero bazageraho babone ukuri.

- Gaspard, mwaramutse?

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

19:08

- Mwaramutse Bwana Kantano? (II tousse) Ngira ngo icy’ingenzi nshaka kuvuga tousse) ubaye ari cyo utangiriraho uvuga uti “uwo mugabo yatanze amasomo avuga ibintu byerekeye ubwicanyi bubera mud iki gihugu cyacu.” Ariko njye ikintu mbona Abazungu koko badasobanukirwaho nk’uko ubivuze ni ukumenya ubwo bwicanyi icyabukuruye, kuko uwo Muzungu uko yabivugaga we yumvaga avuga ati…, kandi ibyo avuga akaba an byo ati “ubwo bwicanyi umuntu agomba kububuza,” ariko icyo bita mu gifaransa “la prevention” ni ukumenya igitera ubwo bwicanyi akaba rero ari cyo umuntu yakwibandaho nk’uko bigeze kubwira…, RUDAHIGWA yigeze kubwira abantu bamuregeraga GITERA, ati “aho kwica GITERA” ati “nimwice ikibimutera.”

Koko rero uwo Muzungu ya…Bernard KOUCHNER wahoze ari na Ministre w’Ubuzima no kurwana ku bantu bad mu byago, ibyo bita “l’action humanitaire,”uwo Muzungu rero yigeze gusura u Rwanda akiri Ministre w’Ubuzima, asura impunzi ziri hariya muri Nyacyonga abona umubabaro wazo ni bwo yavuze ati “FM ntizongere kuvuga na rimwe ko yaje gutabara Abanyarwanda kandi mureba ibikorwa yakoreye Abanyarwanda bangana gutyo.” Ubwo yavugaga impunzi zari muri Nyacyonga.

Ariko uwamwumvise nimugoroba, ubanza uwo mugabo yaribagiwe ibyo yabonye icyo gihe yasuraga u Rwanda asura impunzi ziri hariya muri Nyabugogo. Icyo gihe rero…, muri Nyacyonga nako. Icyo gihe rero nimugoroba mwumvise ukuntu yigishije akavuga ati “ibintu by’ubwicanyi hagomba kuba prevention,” mbese ikintu cyo kubibuza.

21:03

Ariko ikintu njye numvise Kantano wakomojeho tugomba gusobanura, ni uko Bernard KOUCHNEL atigeze yumva icyateye ubwicanyi mu Rwanda, ndetse ngo yumve ko Abazungu ubwabo babifitemo uruhare. Uti babifitemo uruhare kubera iki?

Ubundi u Rwanda rukiri u Rwanda mbere y’ a…y’umwaduko w’Abazungu, uzi uko rwategetswe ntabwo nabisubiramo, uzi ikibazo cy’uburetwa, uzi ikibazo cy’ikiboko, kandi Abazungu cyan cyan Ababiligi ubu twamagana babigizemo uruhare. Kugeza rero igihe Abahutu bi…bibohoje muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda bagakora révolution bagahirika Kalinga, bagahirika ubwami, bakavuga ko uburetwa babwanze bagashyiraho ndetse Repubulika.

22:01

Icyo gibe rero ikibazo cya…urebye cya FPR-Inkotanyi, cy’Inyenzi, cyatangiye icyo gihe kandi Abazungu baba barashoboye kugikosora hakiri kare. Ni cyo ubwo navuga Bernard KOUCHNER atumva neza kuko icyo gibe nyine Inyenzi zitera Abazungu bararebaga, impunzi zibaho Abazungu bararebaga. Ntabwo bigeze bafasha u Rwanda cyangwa se n’ibindi bihugu, u Rwanda ntabwo ari ryo rwagize impunzi rwonyine, ntabwo u Rwanda ari rwo rufite ibyo bibazo byo guterwa n’abantu ba…ba…b’impunzi.bonyine. Icyo gihe rero Abazungu bararebaga bari mu Rwanda, twarafatanyaga twari dufitanye n’umubano icyo kibazo barakirebaga.

Gusa icyo nagira ngo nibandeho cyakurnvisha ubwo bwicanyi ni amavu n’amavuko n’imiterere ya FPR-Inkotanyi, noneho nk’uko wabivuze Abazungu bakamenya FPR icyo ari cyo, uko yavutse, ubwo bwicanyi uko bwakuruwe. Nvuze uko byatangiye muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda, ariko uko byaje kugenda rero kugira ngo nsobanure ubwicanyi cyangwa nako umuntu ye kubwita ubwicanyi nk’uko bamwe babivuga, intambara iriho ubu ngubu yaje ite? FPR yayishoje ite?

Ubundi nyine FPR muzi ko yavukiye mu Bugande (Uganda). Yavukiye mu Bugande (Uganda) ee…bwa Museveni. Ubundi rero mbere yuko Museveni afata ubutegetsi impunzi zari nyinshi mu Bugande (Uganda), noneho zishyiraho Umuryango witwaga “Rwandese well care fondation,” ariko uwo Muryango ukaba wan ugamije ibintu by’umuco nyine w’izo mpunzi z’Abatutsi zabaga mu Bugande (Uganda).

23:06

Hanyuma ziza gushyiraho undi Muryango wa kabiri witwaga “Rwandese alliance for national unity.” Noneho uwo Muryango rero wa.ee…washyizweho n’impurtzi ubaho, iyo Miryango yombi ibaho mu Bugande (Uganda) y’impunzi z’Abatutsi nyine zikomoka muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda. Iyo Miryango rero yabayeho, noneho MOTE afashe ubutegetsi asanga izo mpunzi inyinshi za…zaragiye muri services de sécurité, mu bumaneko bwa Président IDDI AMINE wa Uganda.

Icyo gihe rero IDDI AMINE muzi ukuntu yicaga abantu cyane cyane abantu banekaga, services zo kuneka ukuntu zicaga abantu, zikaba rero zari zigizwe cyane cyane n’Abatutsi. Noneho aho OBOTE yirukaniye AMINE ku butegetsi yikoma cyane cyane Abatutsi, abirukana…arabirukana kubera ko ad bo bafashaka AMINI kwica abantu. Ubwo ni bwo ndetse…, ni ho OBOTE yavanije kuvuga muri meeting yavugiye ahantu hitwa i Soroti avuga ko “Umututsi ari nk’imvunja” ko “iyo utayihanduye hakiri kare ngo uyivane mu mubiri wawe, mu kirenge cyawe ishobora kugutera ubusembwa, ishobora kukumvisha,” ko rero Umututsi ari nk’imvunja umuntu agomba kumwivanaho hakiri kare.

24:08

Ubwo rero nyine OBOTE amaze kwikoma abo Batutsi bari bagize iyo Miryango navuze kandi bari muri services de renseignements za IDDI AMINI, abo bantu bagiye mu…mu ngabo za Museveni icyo gihe warwanaga avuga ko bibye mu matora ariko afite ikindi yari agamije. Ubwo rero Inkotanyi zarwaniriye Museveni ku buryo buzwi, hanyuma Museveni rero aza gufata ubutegetsi mu kwezi kwa mbere muri mirongo inani na gatandatu. Ubwo rero kubera ko ba RWIGEMA, ma…abandi bose muzi bakomeye mu Nkotanyi bad bamurwaniye bakamushyira ku ntebe na we abemerera nyine kuzabashyira ku ntebe mu Rwanda.

Ubwo rero Museveni amaze kubemerera kubashyira ku ntebe mu Rwanda, ni bwo bavuze bati “ya Miryango twari dufite”…ee…Rwandese alliance for national unity, iriya Rwandese well care fondation, baravuga bati “iriya Miryango ntacyo ikimaze ahubwo reka dushyireho Umuryango ukomeye kandi ugamije ibya politique.” Ni bwo rero nyine bashyizeho FPR-Inkotanyi, bashyiraho na “programu” ariko muri iyo “programu” icyo umuntu yavuga ni uko ibyerekeye gutahuka kw’impunzi byari ku murongo wa gatandatu w’iyo “programu.”

26:00

Ubwo rero ngibyo ibyerekeye uko FPR-Inkotanyi yavutse. Ubwo rero iyo “programu” politique ibyo gutahuka byari ku ntu…ku…mu…mu rwego rwa gatandatu…ku murongo wa gatandatu, Inkotanyi rero zagize zitya kubera ko Museveni yazemereye inkunga ziratera nyine muri mirongo icyenda mu Kwakira. Bikumvikana ko rero Inkotanyi zateye zigafata intwaro zari impunzi zifashijwe na Museveni, amahanga areba, ko ayo mahanga abifitemo uruhare. Izo mpunzi ubundi…, mu mategeko yashyiriweho umukono i Geneve agenga impunzi, birabujijwe ko impunzi zifata intwaro zigatahuka mu gihugu cyazo zije zica, ibyo bintu birabujijwe. Amahanga yarebaga izo mpunzi zigaba igitero muri mirongo icyenda, zitwaga impunzi icyo gihe.

26:08

Ubwo rero uwo Muzungu Bernard KOUCHNER ibyo bintu yari akwiye kubimenya, akamenya.ko byagenze akamenya ko amahanga abifitemo uruhare. Izo mpunzi kugira ngo zitere zifite intwaro zingana zityo, zifite imizinga, zifite za mortiers, umuntu se w’impunzi yavana he mortier? Ubu se iby’Inkotanyi zirwanisha muri iki gihe zibivana he? Ntabwo ari amahanga se abitanga?

Bikumvikana ko rero impu…amahanga afite uruhare muri iyi ntambara, kandi umuntu rem ntakaze ngo yiteze inyangarashya avuge ngo…ngo hari ubwicanyi ngo kandi hagomba prévention, kubuza nyine icyakuruye ubwo bwicanyi. Umuntu rero wagombaga kubuza ubwo bwicanyi akaba ari umuntu wagombaga kuba yarabujije nyine izo mpunzi gutaha ku ngufu.

Izo mpunzi twibutse ko ari impunzi zigizwe n’Abatutsi, noneho kugira ngo ahubwo ziyobye amarari zikaba zarigeze gufata nka Kanyarengwe ziti “ngwino utubere Umukuru,” ariko ari ukuyobya uburari kugira ngo batamenya ko izo ari nyine Umutwe w’Abatutsi b’impunzi, ahubwo kugira ngo nyine babeshye amahanga.

Nibs rero FPR-Inkotanyi yaravutse ari intutsi mu Buganda (Uganda), ikaza iteye itera igihugu cyari kirimo ubutegetsi bwavuye nyine muri révolution yo muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda, biragaragara nyine ko abo bantu ban bagamije ubwicanyi banyujije mu ntambara. Ibyo bintu biragaragara…

28:00

The rest of the side is blank.

End of Side A

Side B

The beginning of the side is blank.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

…ku na we ubwe ari mu bantu bakoraga…bagombaga kubikorera prévention n’ayo mahanga n’u Bufaransa (France) n’u Bubiligi (Belgium) ariko tukamenya ko nyine hari abantu babifitemo uruhare.

Hanyuma Kantano ikindi navuga kijyanye n’ubwo bwicanyi ni ukuntu Museveni yifashe nyuma y’umpfu rwa President HABYALIMANA byerekana nyine bijyanye n’ibi navugaga ko amahanga abifitemo uruhare, Umuzungu nk’uriya rero uza mu Rwanda akavuga amagambo nk’ ariya ahubwo yari akwiye kunyarukira nko mu Bugande (Uganda) mbere yo gutahuka ngo atange raporo ye akagenda akabaza Museveni ati, ibintu wino ni ibiki ko tubona ufite uruhare mu ntambara mu bicu bicu…[inaudible]mu bwicanyi, ko ufite uruhare mu bintu…gupfa kw’Abanyarwanda wabiretse cyangwa bakabimwumvisha.

Nagira ngo rero nkubwire ko e…tariki ya gatandatu ko Perezida HABYALIMANA yari agiye mu nama i Dar es-Salaam yahahuriye na Museveni, ahahurira na Perezida…yahahuriye na Museveni na President w’u Burundi yari ahari, bararamukanya, ubwo bagarutse nyine ba [inaudible]HABYALIMANA na NTARYAMIRA nubwo bitabye Imana.

Ariko ubwo icyo gihe ku itariki esheshatu, hari mama yahuzaga Abanyafurika n’abantu bo muri za Caraibes…biriya birwa bituwe n’Abirabura yaberaga i Kampala, iyo nama bakaba Mari bayitumiyemo Patrick MAZIMPAKA, Visi Perezida wa mbere wa FPR-Inkotanyi, batumiye Docteur Théogène RUDASINGWA n’umudamu witwa Christina [inaudible]NYINAWUMWAMI ban muri iyo nama. Noneho Museveni ubwe yagombaga kuyifatamo ijambo.

Ijambo rero abo Bantu bafashe izo ntumwa z’Inkotanyi byari uguharabika bavuga ko e…Perezida HABYALIMANA yabujijeho…yabu…ari we wabujije kujyaho kw’inzego z’ubutegetsi mbese [inaudible]umwanya uhagije, noneho ubwo Museveni ubwe yagombaga gufata ijambo tariki ya karindwi.

17:05

Bamaze rero kumenyesha ko Perezida w’u Rwanda yitabye Imana na Perezida w’u Burundi bari hamwe mu ndege ndetse n’abafasha babo, ikintu cyatangaje abantu ni uko Museveni nyine [inaudible]ari nta kibazo gihari yigera abwira abantu ati “[inaudible], ahubwo Museveni bamaze kumubwira inkuru yaravuze.:. (il tousse) yaravuze ati (ii tousse) ati “narabivuze ko Abanyafurika bagomba kwirangiriza ibibazo byabo [inaudible]” ati “kandi [inaudible].

18:00

Njye ngira ngo ni na we wivugaga kuko yivanze mu kibazo cy’u Rwanda. Irindi jambo yavuze umuntu yavuga ko ari ribi ni uko yavuze ati “njyewe nakomeje kugira Président HABYALIMANA inama mubwira ko yarangiza ikibazo cy’impunzi birananirana ati “none”…ngira ngo nabivuga mu cyongeleza kugira ngo wumve icyo yavuze. Ati “none” ati “it knows it was time to stove the match, mu gifaransa ati “il était temps d’en finir.”

Murumva Umuperezida uvuga amagambo nk’ayo ku rupfu rw’undi Muperezida ubwo uwo Bernard KOUCHNEL wumva ayo magambo ngira ngo yari akwiye kunyarukira mu Bugande (Uganda) akabaza Museveni ibintu arimo kuko niba koko kugira ngo intambara cyangwa ubwicanyi bihagarare ari byo bits “prevention,” gutangiriza, nagende atangirize ubitera an we Museveni wavuze aya magambo nk’aya, mu kinyarwanda umuntu yavuga ati ee…ati murabizi iki ni igihe cyari kigeze ko umuntu yavanaho [inaudible]mu Rwanda [inaudible].

Ubwo rero urumva Museveni uko yabigenje icyo gibe, ubwo rero umuntu koko ushaka amahoro y’u Rwanda yareba ahubwo Museveni akamwumvisha ko aya maraso ameneka ayafitemo uruhare.

Ikindi navuga ni uko Museveni koko ubwe arabizi kandi n’amahanga arabizi, ko yemereye Inkotanyi kuzifasha ngo kugira ngo zifate ubutegetsi mu gihugu. Ubwo rero amahanga abizi, niba ashaka koko gukemura icyo kibazo agomba kureba Museveni akareba n’abandi bose bafasha Inkotanyi kugira ngo intambara ihagarare abaziha intwaro bagahagarika. Niba bavuga bati ntiduha intwaro Guverinoma y’u Rwanda irwana, Guverinoma y’u Rwanda ntabwo ari yo yagiye gutera Inkotanyi, Inkotanyi ni zo zateye Guverinoma. Murumva rero nk’uko e…KAJUGA Robert, “Prezida” w’Interahamwe yaraye avugiye kuri Radiyo y’u Bufaransa abwira abanyamakuru b’u Bufaransa (France) Jean HELENE, bamubaza niba Interahamwe zifite uruhare mu bwicanyi we avuga ati “twaratewe tugomba rero kurwana kuri iki gihugu, tugomba gufasha ingabo,” kandi koko u Rwanda ni two rwatewe. Ubwo rero ushaka ko ubwicanyi buhagarara, ni nka wa wundi ukoma urusyo agomba gukoma.

20:03

Muni urwo ruhare rero Perezida Museveni yagize, ndagira ngo wends ndetse bimwe na bimwe umuntu yavuga Abanyamerika muri iyi ntambara bamwe bakibaza bati, ese Abanyamerika baza bate muri iriya ntambara y’Inkotanyi ?

Ndagira ngo Kantano nkubwire ko Abawofisiye (Officers) b’Inkotanyi barimo ba Paul Kagame, bose akenshi muri bo bize muri Leta Zunze Ubumwe z’Amerika (United States of America), bize muri Université ya Kansas, muri Université ya Michigan, muri Université ya Nouveau Mexique, muri Université ya Californie no muri Université ya Oregon.

Ibyo biremezwa n’umuntu witwa Tom MARLEY ushinzwe nyine guhugura abasirikare muri Pentagon ni kuvuga nko muri…Guverinoma yabo, ni we rero watangaje ibyo bintu avuga ku basirikare “baforumye” bo mu rwego rwo hejuru icumi bo mu Bugande (Uganda) barindwi bari abo mu Nkotanyi. Noneho ndetse ngo bagendana banditse ku izina…

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

Ry’Abagande.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

21:09

Ko ari Abagande. Ariko uwo mugabo witwa Tom MARLEY ni we wavuze ati “ni njyewe ubishinzwe dore n’amazina yabo, abo bantu baje bitwa Abagande ariko ni Inkotanyi zirimo kurwana ubu mu Rwanda. Ndetse na Shefu wabo Paul Kagame, Kagame ni twe twamuhuguye, twamwigishije ibya gisirikare. Ibyo bintu biremezwa, ndetse avuga ko igihugu cye cyari cyarageneye e…ibihumbi…amadolari ibihumbi ijana na mirongo itanu ngo nyine byo guhugura abo bantu, noneho baza kubishyira ahubwo ku bihumbi magana ane by’amadolari kugira ngo bigishe izo mpunzi nyine uu…zigishwe imirwano.

Nkagira ngo rero mvuge ko amahanga afite uruhare muri iyi ntambara, ko rero abantu badakwiye gukomeza kuvuga ngo ubwicanyi ubwicanyi kandi babona ubwicanyi aho buturuka. Museveni rero ati “Nkotanyi ndabashyigikiye, nimufate amasasu mutere” ati “kandi gutsinda ndabibona bin hafi,” ati “kuko muzamanuka i Burundi nimubona mugeze hafi y’i Burundi,” ati “u Burundi buzabashyigikira” ati “kandi gutsinda kwacu…, kuko ntabwo ari ugutsinda kw’Inkotanyi gusa no gutsinda kwa Museveni kurimo kuko iyi ntambara y’Inkotanyi ari “porogramu” ya Museveni ngo yo kuzakora ubutegetsi-ntutsi muri aka karere ka Uganda, u Rwanda, u Burundi n’amajyaruguru ya Zaire. Ati “mutere rero njye ndabafasha, nimunyura epfo u Burundi bubafashe” ati “kandi muzatsinda kuko ubu MOBUTU wari gufasha Abanyarwanda afite ibibazo mu rwego rw’ubukungu akagira ibibazo no mu rwego rwa politique.

Iyo rero akaba ari yo stratégie globale ya Museveni n’Inkotanyi. Tukumva rero twebwe n’ayo mahanga tugomba kuyabwiza ukuri, niba dutewe tugomba kwitabara, akaba ari cyo narangirizaho. - [inaudible]

Ntabwo umuntu yaterwa ngo abure kwitabara, wenda ntarangiza,…

…Wari utararangiza…

…ntararangiza…

…Bari ibintu Umukoloneli witwa KAHINDA OPAPILE yavugiye…

- Yabivugiye muri Université ya Makerere ejo nazi nabivuze nibagirwa izina rye, ubu ni, akaba ikimenyetso cyerekana ko Museveni koko afite uruhare mu…mu gufasha Inkotanyi. Uwo Mukoloneli witwa KAHINDA OPAPILE akaba ari directeur général ushinzwe iperereza mu Bugande (Uganda), ubwo rero muri iyo nama nyine nakubwiraga yaberaga i Kampala uyu mugabo yavugiye mud Université y’i Makerere avuga ati “mwebwe muravuga ngo bariya bahungu,” ubwo avuga Inkotanyi muzi ko babita abahungu,…

29:06

The…the boys …the boys, ngo “bariya bahungu” ngo “muravuga ngo bateye u Rwanda,. ngo bateye u Rwanda,” ail “nyamara baje ino aha barabarwanirira,” ubwo ara…nyine aravuga igihe Inkotanyi zarwaniraga Museveni zimushyira ku butegetsi. Ati “barwana na HMI AMINI’ ati “igihe mwebwe mwari mwe…munsi y’ibitanda byanyu,” ati “barabarwanirira” ati “none murimo gusakuza ngo bateye u Rwanda.” Ati “ese muragira ngo bajye he”? Ati “muravuga ngo ni bo badutegeka,” kuko uzi ko Inkotanyi zari nyinshi mu rwego rw’ubutegetsi bw’i Buganda (Uganda), haba mu kuneka haba mu rwego rwa gisirikare ndetse…(Two voices at the same time)…

N’ubu ahubwo ndetse no mu rwego rwa politique (Two voices at the same time)…, n’ubu biyita Inkotanyi ariko n’ubu barimo. Ubwo rero uwo mugabo akavuga ati “tugomba kubafasha akazi.” Uwo mugabo rero ni Koloneli KAHINDA OPAPILE yabivugiye muri Université i Makerere tukaba dufite na cassette yabyo abivuga mu magambo y’icyongeleza, [inaudible]mu gifaransa,…- None urabona aha ngaha avuga ngo…(Two voices at the same time)…

24:01

ariko,…

- …ngo “bibaye ngombwa” ee…ngo “tugomba gufata intwaro” ago “tugapfana na bo,”…

- Yee…

- …ntiha…ngo “ntabwo ari uku…” ago “ntitugomba kubarebera gusa,”…

- Yee. ngo “ukugenda tugafata intwaro” ngo “tugapfana na bo,” ngo tu…“tugatsindana hamwe na bo,…

- Yee ibyo ni ibintu (inaudible: two voices at the same time)…”

- Ibyo ni…n’amagambo ko Kantano wenda wa…waza kuyasubiramo witonze ndagusigira inyandiko uze kuyisobanurira abatwumva, ariko baravuga bati “baradufashije tugomba kubafasha tu…batsinda tugatsindana na bo, batsindwa tugatsindwana na bo.” Ibi bintu nkabona Guverinoma yari ikwiye kubifata mu gihe izarega u Bugande (Uganda) ibi bintu ikabivuga ika…ika…ikabyerekana ko u Bugande (Uganda) buvuga bubinyujije mu muntu ushinzwe iperereza kandi…- tousse) 25min03sec - w’umumilita ukomeye ushyigikiye Museveni avuga ko bazarwanirira Inkotanyi kuko zabarwaniriye batsinda bagatsindana na zo batsindwa bagatsindwana na zo. Ntabwo rero umuntu rero w’Umunyarwanda yakumva amagambo nk’aya ngo noneho ngo ahagarare ngo…ngo rubyiruko ngo nimuve kuri bariyeri ngo uyu musivili ngo wigira intwaro nk’uko uwo mugabo Bernard KOUCHNER nabivugaga nimugoroba, kandi uwo muntu yatewe. None se waterwa ugahambira ukagenda ukareka umwanzi akagufatana umuheto akagufata mpiri?

lbyo rero ndumva Abanyarwanda tutabyemera, [He coughs] byaba ngombwa uwo mugabo KOUCHNER abantu bacu bagahura na we bakasobanurira imitere y’iyi ntambara kuko njye numvise atayumva. Kantano urakoze kuba Wampaye ijambo.

25:09

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

R.T.L.M. Radiyo yigenga ivugira i Kigali. Ubu bibaye saa…uzi ubwenge utari igicucu iby’iyi ntambara amaze kubyumva, nkakeka yuko ahasigaye ni ukuduha ibikoresho tugakora ubu nta cyo dushobora kwizera ku Bazungu na kimwe. Ikintu dushobora kwizera gusa ni uko baduha imbunda ubu…byaba ngombwa bakazidukodesha ubundi tukarwana n’Inkotanyi, tukarwana na bariya Bagande. lbyo ari byo byose u Bugande (Uganda) si igihugu gikize cyane, si igihugu udufaranga twose cyari gifite Inkotanyi zarat…za…zaraturiye ziratumara zi…zigira ngo zifate igihugu noneho zizajye zivoma u Rwanda iigire…U Bugande (Uganda) rero ntabwo ari ukuvuga ko ari igihugu cyarwana igihe kinini cyane gikabije, tuzarwana na bo mpaka bumvise nyine…, wa mugani wa Museveni avuga ati e…cyangwa se uriya ‘CAA niba ari KAYINDA niba ari iki uriya Mukoloneli, ni we wavugaga ati “nibatsinda tuzatsindana nibatsindwa tuzatsindwana.”

Turagira ngo rero twereke Abagande yuko tuzabatsindana nyine n’Inkotanyi bikarangira nta kundi noneho bakavuga bati koko bariya Bantu baratwumvishije. Kandi mu by’ukuri gutsinda twari twarabitangiye, no mu mupira twari twaragaritse igihangange Suclani (Soudan), ntabwo rero byadutangaza mu ntambara tugaritse n’igihangange Uganda n’Inkotanyi zacyo noneho zikicuza n’Abagande bakiheba noneho na Museveni akazinga amabinga yumiwe.

26:09

Mukomeje kumva R.T.L.M. ivugira i Kigali. Mukomeze mwumve umuziki, mu kanya turakomeza ibiganiro byacu.

(Chanson “Mbwira abumva” de BIKINDI Simon)

Babwire ko ba….

Speaker: Ananie NKURUNZIZA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

Ibintu rero bigeze ahakomeye, bigeze…nari ngiye kuvuga aho intambara igeze mu bihe bya nyuma, ni bya bihe bya nyuma twakunze kubabwira tuti “intambara irwanwa, intambra izakomeza irwanwe kugeza ku gihe cy’indunduro.” Tugeze rero ku gihe cy’indunduro muri kumwe na NKURUNZIZA Ananiya muri iki gitondo, ukunze kubasesengurira uko ibintu biba bimeze cyane cyane ibyasohotse mu makuru, ibyanditswe n’ibinyamakuru cyangwa iby’amaradiyo aba yavuze.

27:04

Intambara turwana rero irakomeye, turarwana intambara y’amasasu ariko n’iy’amagambo yongeye kubura na cyane cyane ikuzwa na ka gatsiko k’Abatutsi, ba…iyo bakoze ku karimi kabo ni ho bikara kurusha ndetse iyo bakoze ku masasu.

Intambara turwana rero igitangira cyane cyane mu mwaka wa mirongo urwenda ibyo ntitwabigaruho, bavugaga ko ari abantu ngo baje kuzana demokarasi ibyo twabivuze nk’incuro nyinshi, byabaye ikinyoma. Iy’ejobundi aha rero yo ku itaxiki ya gatandatu ari yo yabimbuje kwica Perezida wa Repubulika, kuko bo bavuze ahubwo ko atari intambara hagati y’amoko ari intambara ngo abantu batsimbaraye ku butegetsi ngo bishe abaharanira demokarasi.

Nyamara muri iyi mini baravuza iya BAHANDA bavuga ngo Abatutsi bashize bamazwe n’Abahutu, ibintu nk’ibyo ngibyo,

28:02

Aha nagira ngo mbabwire ncuti zumva R.T.L.M. ko intambara turwana koko ishingiye kuri ayo moko yombi, y’Abahutu n’Abatutsi. Abatutsi b’i Burundi ni cumi na batanu ku ijana. Bazengereje Abahutu mbese ku buryo n’Amnistie internationale yatanze ikirego, ubundi Amnistie internationale muzi ko ikunze kubogamira ku bintu bimwe na bimwe, ariko ubu yatanze ikirego isa nano irega amahanga, Irega amahanga kuba akomeje gusinzira mu gibe abantu bashira, abantu mu Burundi bashira, aha ndabisoma mu cyongeleza mu kanyamakuru kasohotse k’icyongeleza aho bavuga yuko Amnistie internationale ihamagara kugira ngo Inama ya Loni iterane yige ikibazo cy’iyicwa; ry’Abahutu b’i Burundi. Hanyuma Aministie internationale rero ikarega…, byanditse mu cyongeleza, rimwe na rimwe hari ubwo iyo umuntu avuze inkuru ntasome uko zimeze a…bagira ngo ni izo akura mu mutwe we.

Byanditse mu cyongeleza ngo “It condemned a hundred thousand killed in Burundi in October 1993, (inandible) by the Tutsis [inaudible].” Ni ko kuvuga nyine ko Amnisty international iregera Abahutu ibihumbi ijana bapfuye kuva NDADAYE yapfa bakicwa n’agatsiko k’Abatutsi hamwe n’abasivili ba…ni agatsi ko k’Abatutsi bari mu ngabo z’igihugu z’aho n’abasivili b’aho.

Kuva rero Abahutu b’i Burundi bapfa ntiturumva induru ivuga ivuye muri Amerika (Amérique) ivuga yuko ba BIKOMAGO bamaze Abahutu. Ntiturumva induru ivuga ivuye mu Bubiligi (Belgique) ndetse Ababiligi bo bane no guhurura rwose mu Burundi igihe byari bikomeye, ariko ubu none rero mu Rwanda induru ziravuga ngo Abatutsi bashize, ngo Abatutsi baricwa n’Abahutu.

Icyo kintu rero tukimenye inkomoko, ni icyo kuduca intege ngo bongere bagarure n’iby’ubuhutu n’iby’ubututsi. Nyamara ahubwo intambara turwana ni intambara hagati y’Imitwe ibiri, ni Umutwe w’Abanyarwanda urwanira kugira ngo ubeho wo gushirira lcu icumu, n’agatsiko k’Inyenzi kagizwe n’Abatutsi.

Baravuga rero bati, ibinyamakuru bimwe na bimwe ati ee…abarwana baravuga yuko Abahutu ari bo bashaka kwica Abatutsi kugira ngo Abahutu batava ku butegetsi, ntabwo ikibazo ari icyo ahubwo ikibazo ni icya kariya gatsiko k’Abatutsi gashaka kugera ku butegetsi nk’uko ee…twabibonye byo kugabana byo nta n’umuntu uzongera kubyitaho.

30:03

Iyi ntambara rero yubuwe ku itariki ya gatandatu z’ukwezi kwa !cane Inkotanyi zahakanye ko atari intambara hagati y’Abahutu n’Abatutsi, ndetse na TWAGIRAMUNGU w’Umuvugizi wazo ubu uri mu buhungiro yatewe mu ryabo avuga ko atari intambara iri hagati y’a…y’Abahutu n’Abatutsi, none rero bongeye kutubwira bate ko Abatutsi bashiriye ku icumu?

Indirimbo yabaye ndende ngo Abatutsi bashiriye let icumu, ibi na byo mbisomye mu kinyamakuru icyo bita ee…“Herald Tribnne” cyandikirwa i Zirici (Zurich) ho mu Busuwisi (Suisse). Kikagira kiti “Rwandan Patriotic who were in the capital Kigali when the violence began said the killing of [inaudible]by some officiers groups [inaudible]in majority Hutu, [inaudible]there to secure their position of power by the minority [inaudible].” Biravuga gusa ngo Abazungu bavuye ino aha n’Abanyarwanda gusa bacitse ku icumu bavuga ko bacitse ku icumu ngo bagahunga ubwo abo ni abaci muri wa mugambi wo gukora amarorerwa muri iki gihugu, ngo bavuga ko iyi ntambara yashojwe n’Abahutu benshi nyamwinshi ngo bashaka kuguma ku butegetsi bityo bakica Abatutsi bo mu mbaga nyamuke.

Ibyo ni ibinyoma ngira ngo ntabwo twagombye kubigarukaho, icyo kinyoma rero ni cyo muza kumva igihe ibinyamakuru, amaradiyo avuga muri iki gihe ni cyo kinyoma bashyize imbere.

31:03

Byumvika…reka rero byumvikane bityo ko intambara turwana iri hagati y’Abanyarwanda n’agatsiko k’Abatutsi bashaka gufata ubutegetsi. Ako gatsiko k’Abatutsi ni ko mu by’ukuri kishe Umwami RUDAHIGWA mu mwaka wa mirongo itanu n’icyenda, nubwo Abahutu bar batangiye rero guhaguruka bahagaze muri mirongo itanu na karindwi igihe bandikaga manifeste yabo bagira bati “turashaka kwigobotora ingoma ya cyami na gihake,” RUDAHIGWA icyo gihe yarakangutse areba kure, yarebye kure kuko…kuko yatangiye guca ubuhake n’ikiboko, Abatutsi bati “uriya agiye kudukura amata mu kanwa, agiye kubuza abaduhekaga kuduheka.” Baramwica, mu iyimikwa rye rero i Mwima…, abakuru bajya babivuga aha ngaha muri politique nubwo natwe icyo gihe twarebaga buhoro ariko ni byo byakuruye intambara yo muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda ndetse yabaye révolution ari yo yatumye Abahutu bigobotora.

32:00

Ababiligi rero icyo gihe birumvikana ko bataciriye Abatutsi akarurutega, ntabwo ari uko mu by’ukuri bakundaga Abatutsi na…nako bangaga Abatutsi bagakunda Abahutu ahubwo ni inyungu zabo z’icyo gihe kuko agatsiko k’Abatutsi k’icyo gihe ko kavugaga ko gashaka indépendance gashaka kwirukana Ababiligi, Ababiligi rero barahaguruka barahagarara bati “ ntabwo e…mwadutwara ubutegetsi, ntabwo Abatutsi mwadutwara ubutegetsi.”

Abo Babiligi rero kuri uyu munsi tuvugiraho, alto intambara yo ku itariki ya gatandatu y’ukwezi kwa…kwa kane yongeye kuburira ni bo bahinduye urutugu imbunda bayikura ku rutugu bayishyira ku rundi. Ni bo bishe Perezida wa Repubulika y’u Rwanda, ndetse baravuga ko hari n’Abanyamerika bashobora kuba baragize uwo mugambi wo kwica Perezida wa Repubulika w’u rwa…w’u Rwanda, n’Abagande, n’abo Batutsi b’ako gatsiko ka…Kagame ka Paul Kagame kuko Kanyarengwe tujye tumwihorera ni…nako sinabona uko mwita.

Ejo rero na none ku maradiyo yo bane twumvaga Robert KAJUGA asobanurira umunyamakuru kuri Radiyo y’Abafaransa iri hano witwa Jean HELENE uko Interahamwe ziri kurwana ku gihugu. Ndetse Interahamwe bamaze iminsi bazikomye bavuga ngo ni zo zica abantu. Ntabwo Interahamwe zica abantu ahubwo zirarwana. Ubwo zirwana ni ko kuvuga ko abo zirashe bapfa n’abazirasheho na zo zigapfa. Ni kimwe n’ingabo z’u Rwanda, zirarwana ziri ku rugamba, iyo zagabye igitero zirwanaho zipfusha abantu bake n’abo abo zirashe barapfa. Ni uko intambara imera intambara ibamo ibice bibiri, utera n’uterwa.

33:03

Twaratewe rero turitabara, n’Interahamwe zirimo. Interahamwe rero zabaye…abantu bazigize…, ee…babagira nk’abantu babi, nk’abantu b’ibiroge, oya, Interahamwe…, cyokora Kano ndabona Umuzungu azandikaho avuga ngo the [inaudible]militia is the Interahamwe for who those…who stand together. Interahamwe ngo ni byo koko uwo Muzungu ya…yanditse mu cyongeleza, yarabisobanuye nibs babyumvaga abumva icyo cyongeleza “ those who stand together.” Ni abantu bahagurukira hamwe nk’umuntu umwe. Ngabo rero Interahamwe, Interahamwe mu by’ukuri ni

abantu batarabisobanukirwaho kuri iyi ntambara aho yuburiye ntabwo zikiri urubyiruko rwa M.R.N.D. gusa:

33:09

- Ni urubyiruko rwa M.D.R. iharanira Repubulika.

- Ni urubyiruka rwa P.L. iharanira Repubulika.

- Ni urubyiruko rwa P.S.D. iharanira Repubulika.

- Ni urubyiruko rwose rw’amashyaka aharanira Repubulika.

Ngabo rero barimo Impuzamugambi bahagurukiye kurwana nk’uko Robert KAJUGA yabivugaga, rubyiruko rwose, kera hariho nako na n’ubu baracyariho abavugaga ko ari inkuba. Nimurwane aho muzarwana muvuge muti turi inkuba, inkuba twateye i Shyorongi twambura umwanzi imbunda, inkuba twateye mu Gatenga.

Mwe gutinya rero kurwana ngo badutere ubwoba kuko tururnva amaradiyo amwe nk’ayo y’Inkotanyi avuga ngo ee…abarwana bazacwirwa urubanza. Mu by ‘ukuri iyo urwanye ugatsinda ni ride wagucira urubanza se? Yagucira urubanza se kuko watsinzwe? Han icyo bita mu kilatini ngo “ Vae victis,” ngo mbega abatsinzwe ko mufite ibyago! Uwatsinzwe koko aba afite ibyago nta wutamucira urubanza umuntu wese araza aka…no kugukwena ati waratsinzwe.

Niturwana rero dushishikaye nk’uko kandi tubikora tugatsinda izo manza zagarutse muri Radiyo Muhabura ahubwo ni twe tuzazibacira na cyane cyane tubaziza ko bakuruye intambara muri mirongo urwenda, tukajya Arusha tukabaha imyanya batari banakwiye bakayanga, bagakurura iyi [inaudible]twatangiye ku itariki ya gatandatu z’ukwezi kwa kane.

Na none ngo abaregwa n’Abanyamerika n’abandi bantu ntamenya, ngo ni iyi Radiyo yanyu Radiyo R.T.L.M. Nibamenye neza ko Radiyo R.T.L.M. ari Radiyo y’intambara. Ubu turarwanwa na…barwana natwe. Turi ku rugamba umenya Secrétaire national wa M.R.N.D. yaravuze ati iyi RUM ihwanye na bataillons ebyiri cyangwa eshatu, ariko…ariko twebwe dusanga ahubwo twunganira mwe mwese muri ku rugamba. Urugamba turwana ni um nguru rwo kubabwira tuti mukomere, nta rundi rugamba turwana nta mbunda tugira nta ki, ariko turababwira tuti nimukomere.

35:04

Icyo baturega rero na none, uyu munsi nayi…[inaudible]ibinyamakurn byandikwa mu cyongeleza ni yo mpamvn mujya knmva mukumva nshyizem…ndoshyemo akajambo k’icyongeleza. Icyo baturega rero nagira ngo cyumvikane cyane cyane nk’abumva icyongeleza, baratureka iki kintu “ ngo trought out the programme the militia were exhorted by the private the own the Hutu radio station “Radio des Mille collines”which continues to broadcast [inaudible]like the enemy with out care [inaudible]. Ubwo baraturega rero muri Radiyo fibre des mille canines ngo y’Abahutu…ngo y’Abahutu ngo iyo tubonye umwanzi tumutunga agatoki bakamwica.

Icyo kirego rero ndumva ntaho bazakijyana habe no muri Loni kuko turarwana nitubona umwanzi tuzamwica, nidutsindwa tuzaba tugize akaga, nidutsinda kandi nta wuzajya kuturega. Mukomere rero ku rugamba, urugamba dukomeze tururwane.

Na none dukomeza mu makurn yaramutse, bakunze kudukangisha…, n’iby’Inkotanyi zidukangisha muri iyi minsi, “ngo Abanyamerika bavuze,” ngo ba runaka bavuze, ngo Abazungu bo muri Loni bavuze, ngo ako gatsiko ako gatsiko. Ibyo rero ngira ngo dukwiye kumenya ko ari propaganda ahubwo tugashikama tukarwana.

Ejo nababwiraga mu makuru y’ejo yuko Abanyamerika bajyanye ingabo zabo zirenga ibihumbi mirongo ine na bine mu marl yo mu bizinga bya Caraïbes ngo ba…tegura igitero cyo kuzatera akazinga ka Haiit. Akazinga ka Haiti u Rwanda rukaruta nk’incuro nk’eshatu ariko noneho ko kakagira abaturage ngira ngo batarenze miliyoni imwe.

Ubwo rero ngo Abanyamerika bari bashoyemo abasirikare kugira ngo bazajye gufata ubutegetsi bw’aho ku ngufu babone undi mupadiri w’aho wirukanywe n’abaturage ku ngufu. Ibyo bintu rero, e…Président w’ako kazinga yavugiye kuri ra…kuri televiziyo y’Abanyamerika muri gitondo…, ni igitangaza ni televiziyo ikomeye cyane yitwa CNN iri ahantu hitwa Atlanta. Uwo Président yavuze ati “Abanyamerika bajye kwi [inaudible], nibaza bazasanga turi maso kandi tuzarwana na bo kugeza ku wa nyuma.

Ibyo ni na byo byatumye rero Bill CLINTON yisubiraho avuga yuko ngo bazabanza bakareba ibihano Loni yageneye ako kazinga, ngo abategetsi babo batava ku butegetsi ngo bakareba ukundi babigenza.

37:05

Mu by’ukuri rero igihe tugezemo twari tugamije demokarasi koko, aho rubanda rureba kure rukirobanurira abaturage, ntabwo ari cyo gibe bagombye kudukoreshaho iterabwoba, bagombye kutubwira ngo turakora ibi nitwanga batwice ibintu nk’ibyo ngibyo.

Ni yo mpamvu rero…, ndakomeza kubigira nk’inganzo, tugomba guhagarara tukarwana kugira ngo tudatsindwa na kariya gatsiko k’Abatutsi. Ntabwo ako gatsiko k’Abatutsi…, aha tujye tugumya tubyibukiranye, ntabwo Abatutsi bose bar muri Ako gatsiko, bariya Batutsi duturanye, bariya Batutsi turarana irondo, bariya Batutsi duhana amazi duhana umuriro ntabwo bari muri ako gatsiko. Ako gatsiko ahubwo Abatutsi na w…na bo bararira bagira bati “iyo katabaho ku isi, iyo ibyo byihebe bitabaho. Ntabwo rero twagendera ku iterabwoba ry’ako gatsiko.

Aha ariko nta wabura kwibaza ikintu gikomeye ngira ngo burl wese aba akwiye kwibaza arebye kure, ni lid cyatumye Abanyamerika bishora mu ntambara iyi turwana bazi ynko agatsiko k’Abatutsi kadashobora gutsimbura Abahutu na cyane cyane abo mu Rwanda bashinze bamaze iminsi ku butegetsi badashobora gupfa kubunyagwa n’ubonetse wese? Ni ild cyatumye Ababiligi bafata icyemezo cyo kutwicira President wa Repubulika. Nyakubahwa Jenerali majo…Major ha…HABYALIMANA wari wubatse iki gihugu akatugeza ku majyambere?

Ndumva rero twebwe twarazize ibyo bita “géopolitique,” ahantu duherereye muri Afurika y’ibiyaga bigari, muri Afurika yo hagati (Afrique centrale), ni cyo twazize. Ubwo naganiraga ubushize nababwiye ko nigeze kuganira n’Umukoloneli witwa ROCK. Uwo Mukoloneli yarambwiye ati “u Rwanda ubu ngubu abantu bararushaka cyane, u Rwanda ruri hagati y’ibihugu bivuga icyongeleza n’ibihugu bivuga igifaransa. Iyo uvuye ku myaro y’Atlantika mu bihugu bivuga igifaransa, Afrique de l’ouest, ukaza ukagera mu Rwanda ubwo uba urenze ibihugu bivuga igifaransa ukajya mu bihugu bivuga icyongeleza byo ku myaro y’inyanja y’Abahinde. U Rwanda rem rukaba ruri hagati, ntabwo kuba hagati gusa bihagije ahubwo u Rwanda rwari rumaze kuba akazinga k’amahoro, akazinga k’amajyambere.39:06

Badutera rero ban bazi yuko date amahoro n’amajyambere. Iby’amahoro baravuga bati “ibyo ntibitureba icyo dushaka ni amajyambere yabo.” U Rwanda rero ni rwo kugeza mn minsi ishize na n’ubu ndetse, ni two rufite imihanda ya kaburimbo abantu bashaka kwihuta bakagenderaho, ni rwo rufite amashanyarazi atajyaga abura kugeza ubwo Inkotanyi zononaga urugomero rwo kuri Ntaruka, ni…cyane cyane ni rwo rufite télé…téléphone automatique.

Ngicyo rero ieyaduteje akaga ni amajyambere twagejejweho n’uwo bishe ejobundi aha, ni téléphone automatique ugira utya ugapyatura téléphone ukaba uvuganye n’i Burayi (Europe). Abazungu barabikunda cyane, ahantu hari amazi muri w.c., mwumvise ejobundi aha amazi yabaye makeya induru bavugije, ahantu hari amashanyarazi bagateka, cyane cyane noneho ahantu hari téléphone. Ni bwo rero u Rwanda barwitaga “plaque tournante.” Plaque tournante ahantu wicara ukaba umerewe neza ukajya mu ishyamba ry’Akagera washaka ;gutelefona i Burayi (Europe) ugatelefona, washaka kwitnma mu nzu ukituma ugafungura amazi bikagenda, ngicyo icyo twazize. Icyo na none muraza kumbwira muti ntigihagije cyane, ntabwo gihagije cyane koko umuntu adakomeje ngo asobanure kuko abashakaga u Rwanda, abo base barurwaniragamo baruhataniramo banyuze kwa Museveni abo ngabo cyane kuko Museveni na we ni igikoresho cy’abantu ubu tumaze knbimenya, na we ni igikoresho…

41:00

End of Side B