Information
Date of Transmission15 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM/4
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/5
Name of TranscriberPénine-Joie Muteteli
Date of Transcription2 February 2000
Duration90 Minutes
QualityGood
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0005

Side A

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI, Editor-in-Chief of R.T.L.M.

00:00

…ari ubutegetsi ari igitangaza. Ko rero irwanywa ku buryo bwinshi, bamwe ndetse bavuga ko (aseka) bayirwana bagaramye abandi bikabavanirizamo gutwara icumu igicuri. Ibyo rero Radiyo y’u Bufaransa yatangaje byadutangaje cyane. Muzi ko Melchior NDADAYE bamwishe amaze ku butegetsi amezi atatu gusa, FRODEBU, ishyaka rye ryaratsinze ayo matora, ritsinda ishyaka UPRONA n’andi mashyaka yagiye nyine ubu muri opposition.

Ikintu rero cyatangaje abantu, n’iyo nkuru nagira ngo mbagezeho, Radiyo b’u Bufaransa nyine yumvikaniye i Kigali yatangaje ko ishyaka UPRONA n’andi mashyaka yose ari milli opposition avuga ko kugira ngo amahoro agaruke mu Burundi, ari uko Président w’icyo gihugu atava mu bwoko bw’Abahutu cyangwa ngo ave mu ishyaka FRODEBU. Ibyo Radiyo y’u Bufaransa ikavuga ko yabitangaje ibibwiwe n’«umukoresiponda» wayo, ni umunyamakuru wayo uyihagarariye i Bujumbura.

Ubwo rero ngira ngo abazi politique, nta warenza kuri ibyo bintu. Kuvuga ngo kugira ngo amahoro agaruke ngo Perezida ntazave mu Bahutu, ngo cyangwa ngo ntazave muri FRODEBU. Kandi uwo muntu ubivuga akavuga ko ari umuntu ukunda demukarasi! (Aseka) None se mu Burundi ko bavuga ko ikibazo cy’amoko cyari cyararangiye, iyo bavuga Umuhutu ko Perezida atava mu Bahutu baba babivana hehe?

Niba se bemera demokarasi kuki FRODEBU itsinze amatora itatanga Perezida? Mukumva rero ko demokarasi ikiri kure, mukumva ko ibintu bya politique uko abantu babyumva, Abanyafurika babyumva cyangwa Abarundi bikiri kure. Nta muntu uzi demukarasi icyo bivuga, nta muntu uzi politique ishingiye ku mashyaka icyo bivuga, nta muntu wifuza ubwiyunge by’Abarundi cyangwa bw’abandi bu…bw’ igihugu wavuga ngo Perezida ntazave mu bwoko ubu n’ubu. Ibyo ni ibintu birenze kamere.

Tukaba turibubagezeho n’andi makuru y’i Burundi ariko ibyo bintu twe tukumva birenze kamere, tukumva umuntu uvuga amagambo nk’ayo atari akwiye kongera gutera hejuru ngo avuge ko ari umunyapolitike cyangwa ko ari umukunzi wa demokarasi. [Music]

Speaker: Noël HITIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

02:03

…turi buze kubagezaho mu kanya amakuru y’ishyaka P.L., ariko kugira ngo mbatere amatsiko nimubanze mwumve uwo muzika.ry’ishyaka P.L. Ibyo bintu bitugezeho babyise «umugambi mubisha w ’agatsiko ka Landuwaridi NDASINGWA», ni ko byitwa. Ame…amavu n’amavuko y’ako gatsiko. Ni byo koko Parti Libéral ikivuka yitabiriwe n’Abatutsi benshi. Bamwe muri bo bayitabira kuko babonaga ari ishyaka rizanye amatwara atarobanura azatuma babona urubuga rwo kwidagaduriramo muri politique. Abandi bagitsimbaraye ku bwoko bwabo batari bakeya, babonyemo Parti Liberal inzira yoroshye yo kuzagera ku butegetsi. Abo ni bo baremye agatsiko kiyemeje…kiyemeje gushyigikira FPR gufata…kiyemeje gushyigikira FPR gufata ubutegetsi ku ngufu. Muribuka urubanza rwa SISI washinjwaga kohereza abasore muri FPR kandi ahagarariye P.L. muri Kigali-ville.

Abahutu bashinze ishyaka bakomeje kwihana…kwihanganira iyo migirire mibi y’ako gatsiko bizera ko bazageraho bakaza mu nzira y’ishyaka. Ariko aho ishyaka rimaze gukomerera rigiye kugira uruhare mu butegetsi bw’igihugu, ntabwo byatinze kugaragara ko ako gatsiko ka Lando gashaka kwikubira imyanya yose y’ubutegetsi ishyaka ryahawe. Ni bwo rero umwuka mubi watangiye kuvuka mu ishyaka. Bije gusandara, bije gusandara rero, aho amasezerano y’Arusha asinyiwe ishyaka rikegukana Minisiteri eshatu, Abadepite cumi n’ umwe n’umwanya wa Perezida cyangwa Visi Président mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko.

Ubu rero iyo myanya agatsiko ka Lando karashaka kuyikubira ari…ee…ariko kugira ago ishyigirize FPR, iyo myanya nyine ishyigikirizwe FPR. Uwo mubare, uwo mubare uteye ute? Chapitre ya kabiri: uwo mubare uteye ute?

FPR imaze kubona ko idashobora gufata ubutegetsi ishyigikiwe na Museveni, yemeye kugira imishyikirano izayizana mu gihugu hagati ikazafata ubutegetsi noneho iri imbere. Ejobundi FPR imaze kubona ko itazashobora kugera ku butegetsi imaze gutsindwa mu matora yo muri zone tampon, yashatse uburyo izagira ee…izagira ubutegetsi buhagije mu Nzibacyuho yaguye, ubwo buryo nta bundi atari kugira imyanya irenze icya gatatu mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko kugira ngo ntihazagire icyemew gihita itabishatse. Ariko mu by’ukuri irashaka kuzateza akaduruvayo mu butegetsi ikoresheje icyo bits «blocage»mu NtekoIshinga Amategeko.

5:02

Uwo mubare rero…, icya gatatu: ni wo watumye agatsiko ka Lando gakoresha amayeri n’ubutiriganya mu matora yakuruye impaka mu ihitamo ry’Abadepite ba y…ba P.L. bagatorwa ariko…bagatorwa ariko kugira ngo bazahagararire FPR bityo igire icya gatatu.

Kuki rero Lando ashaka kuba Président w’Inteko Ishinga Amategeko, bikanatuma yica nkana amategeko y’ishyaka? Icyo ni ikibazo. Umugambi we ngo ni ukuzaba Président wa Repubulika bamaze kugandagura IKINANI, bamaze kwica IKINANI.

Mwibuke ko mu masezerano y’Arusha, bateganya ko Président wa Repubulika asimburwa na Président w’Inteko Ishinga Amategeko. Nta kindi rero Lando ni we wiyemeje guha FPR ubutegetsi. Aho rero…, aho rero umugambi wabo uta…utahuriwe n’abayobozi ba P.L. ni bwo Lando n’agatsiko ke bitabaje FPR ku mugaragaro. FPR rero yahagurutse, yahagurutse ngo Abadepite bayo ba P.L. niba ishyaka…ni bo isha…ni bo ishaka…ni bo ishaka mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko, bitaba ibyo ngo P.L. ntijye muri Guverinoma. [Inaudible]

Aho rero umugambi wabo utahuriwe n’abayobozi ba P.L. ni bwo Lando n’agatsiko ke bitabaje FPR ku mugaragaro. FPR rero yahagurutse ngo abati…ngo Abatigito. bayo ba P.L. ngo b’ishyaka ni bo ishaka mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko bitaba ibyo ngo P.L. ntijye muri Guverinoma. Aha rero FPR irashaka kuvuga ko nitabona kimwe cya gatatu cy’Abadepite mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko na Président wayo Lando, eh, amase…na Président wayo Lando, amasezerano y’Arusha ntacyo azaba ayimariye kuko batazayigeza ku butegetsi. Ibyo birumvikana niba FPR itabonye icya gatatu cy’Abadepite mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko na Président wabo Lando, icya gatatu ngo akore blocage mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko bafite na Président w’Assemblée, Lando, urumva nyine ntacyo byaba bibamariye.

07:04

Umugambi ee…chapitre ya gatatu, umugambi mubisha umaze Bute…umaze gutegurwa…umaze gutegurwa! Umugambi mubisha umaze gutegurwa. Mu nama yabereye kwa Lando…, ntacyo twageraho umugabo MUGENZI Yustini akiriho. Hum? Nta w…ntacyo twageraho muge…Umugabo MUGENZI Yusitini…banditse akiriko. Ashobora kuba yaravuye mu Burundi. Ni bwo bafashe umugambi wo kumu…kumugandagura, bahise bafata umugambi wo kumugandagura, bahise bakusanya amafaranga yo gushyigikira icyo gikorwa bageza kuri miliyoni. Dore uko bashaka kumuhitana. Guhitana MUGENZI Yustini.

08:01

Ejobundi tariki ya cumi na gatatu z’ukwezi kwa cumi na kabiri muri uyu mwaka ni bwo KAMEYA Andereya ari muri la Fine bouche yawujuje uwo mugambi, yarawujuje, ubwo yatumaga uwitwa KAREGEYA gucikisha KIZUNGU, yari warahitanye GATERA David murumuna wa MUGENZI. KAREGEYA uwo bita Perezida wa FL i Gikondo, uwo ni umwicanyi rubambe watorotse wibera i Bugande akaba ari muri escadron de la mort ya FPR ikorera i Kigali. KAREGEYA…uwo umusuruveya wa gereza i Kigali witwa POLEPOLE ukomoka ku Kibuye ibihumbi cumi na bitanu y ’amafaranga y’u Rwanda. Maze uwo munsi tariki ya cumi na gatatu mucucu…z’ukwezi kwa cumi na kabiri muri uyu mwaka mu ma saa sita, ahita atorokesha KIZUNGU.

KIZUNGU rero bamutegetse kwica MUGENZI ngo hongere…ngo hongere babe ikinamico, hein, yo kwihorera. Ubu ngo KIZUNGU bamuhishe ku Kicukiro haft yo kwa MUGENZI. None rero Banyarwanda bakunzi b’amahoro na demokarasi, muhaguruke murwanye uwo mugambi mubisha ushaka kumena amaraso kandi udasubiza ku ngoma…uzadusubiza…, ukadusubiza…ukazanadusubiza ku ngoma y’uburetwa. Umurwanashyaka wa P.L. ni we wabitwoherereje, yitwa Martini NDABAZI. Yasinye.

Murumva rero…, ncuti mwumva Radiyo yanyu Radiyo R.T.L.M. twe twirwa dutara amakuru atugezeho tugashungura tukareba twasanga ibyo bintu koko byatera inkeke hanze aha ntitubihishire tukabivuga. Ibi ngibi abazi gushishoza, abazi guperereza, abazi gukora za anketi tubikomeyeho nibakore anketi, nibakore anketi barebe muri prison niba KIZUNGU akirimo, niba atakirimo ubwo ngubwo ni ikimenyetso cya mbere, bakore anketi barebe niba muri la…La fine bouche Andereya KAMEYA yari yo kuko ejobundi ku itariki cumi n’eshatu ni bwo ya…ni bwo yaganiriye n’uwo mugabo bita KAREGEYA, hun! Ngo uriya KAREGEYA yari aturutse i Bugande (Uganda) kuko we yari umunyururu mu Bugande [Uganda]. Niba rero ari we wiyita Président wa P.L. i Gikondo, ibimenyetso birimo ni byinshi.

Niba kandi nk’uko nabisomye, mbisoma ubibona ko e…ishyaka FPR mu kanya ndi buze kubasomera ibindi FPR na yo isigaye yiyita ishyaka ubundi ikiyita Umuryango. Niba babona koko P.L. ibashyigikiye ikabaha abantu koko bari batowe mbere amatora congrès ya MUGENZI Yustini ikaba yarayasheshe nk’uko yifuza gutora vuba aha ee…abandi Badepite bakaba basanga bizabagora, ubwo ngubwo numvise ko nk’uko ibihuha…si inkuru mbarirano nta…sinageze kwa Ministre w’u…w’Ubutabera…w’Ubucamanza ngo yaba yabimbwiye ngo ni ko bimeze, hein, ngo baba bavuga ko uriya Notaire niba adashaka gusinyira mu ruhame cyangwa ngo asinyire abandi…, iyo abantu bagiye kuburana ari babiri umwe aba aherekeje undi. Afite rem ukuntu yabivutura asinyire bamwe cyangwa yange abandi ariko ye kuvuga ngo base [inaudible] ngo base arabazi. None se ubwo ngubwo aciye ishyaka mu gihugu? Niba kandi ariciye na byo abisinyire avuge ko nta shyaka rikiriho, iryo shyaka tumenye ko rya…ryapfuye byarangiye twe kugomeza kuvuga ngo za P.L. za P.L. zakoreye aha, P.L. zakoreye hariya. Hun, uwo Notaire abivuge cyangwa abibwire Ministre we umutegeka, hein, NTAMABYALIRO Agnes aje Kano kuri R.T.L.M. cyangwa kuri Radiyo Rwanda cyangwa ategure nk’ikiganiro, hein, cya…cyagenewe abanyamakuru atubwire ati ishyaka ntarikibaho, tubimenye.

Naho amacenga mu Rwanda tumaze kuyahaga cyane ntabwo dukeneye guhora turi mu macenga y’amashyaka dufite ibindi twakora, dufite n’indi migambi twafata kuko aho ibintu bigeze ubu tumaze gushirika ubwoba. Umuntu aka…akamenya kwi…kwirinda. Wirukankana…hein? Wirukankana umugabo kera yageraho agashira ubwoba akaguhindukirana, ni ko bimeze. Mu minota mike mu minota itatu turaba dufite saa moya, tube twumva uwo muzika.

Ndi buze kubageza ku bindi, ibindi mbona ari FPR noneho yatwibutse yibutse ee…umukunzi wayo R.T.L.M. ikaba hari documents nabonye zangezeho banyibutse, ndabasomeramo gake gake ni byinshi cyan ni amapaje nka cumi n’ arindwi. Ndabasomeraho gake gake mwumve ukuntu na bo biteguye kuzagira muri iki gihugu.

12:03

Muri Radiyo Bujumbura batwibwiriye bati «erega mu Burundi nta kigenda», bati «reba ko…mu ijoro ryo ku wa cumi na gatatu ugana ku wa cumi na kane muri uku kwezi hari habaye coup d’Etat uretse gu…ibyo warose byari byabaye». Hnum? Bati «yarapfuye». Ati «rero» ati «nk’uko bakomeje kubivuga mu maradiyo yo hanze byabaye impamo, muri camp Mabanda, Lieutenant colonel Fidèle ee…YARAMBULIYE, Fidèle BARAMBULIYE ubu ngubu ntakiri mu Burundi, ntakiri mu Burundi kubera ko we yagiye mu ma communes ee…«gupasifiya» ni ko dusigaye tubyita mu gifaransa cy’ ikinyarwanda, guhumuriza abaturage. Agiye mu ma communes rero mu kuvayo abasirikare be bamwe bati «reka twirare mu baturage biriya Bihutu tubyice twisahurire»arababuza. Ababujije ageze mu kigo bikomeza gutera umutima…umwuka mubi, bituma ndetse abasirikare abamukunda bajya…, hein, simvuze ngo mu ngumi, ukuntu abasirikari barwana simbizi sindabona barwana mu kigo ariko ba…bakoze ibyo bita mu gisirikari ngo ni mutinerie. Babigeza i Bujumbura, muri Etat-major bati «rero commandant w’ikigo [inaudible]nabisobanure tumenye ibyo bintu uko bimeze». Lieutenant colonel Fideli BARAMBULIYE ati «ndaje», afata abantu be ati «twitwabe i Bujumbura» ati « baranshaka» ati «ni ko bibaye».

Niba yarageze mu nzira bikamurya, arareba ati «ahn! Nishore i Bujumbura bangire nka NDADAYE»! Umuhungu agufatira inzira ati «muze dukate». We n’abantu barakata no muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) ngo po. Ubu bari (inaudibIe) Tanzaniya (Tanzanie) ni yo bibereye. Baragiye rero kuva ejo, ntabwo Lieutenant colonel Fickle Baramumpa…Barambu…BARAMBULIYE n’abantu be bari mu Burundi ahubwo bari muri Tanzaniya (Tanzanie), barambutse rero.

Ibindi bivugwa rero ni uko muri…muri camp Makamba na ho bimeze nabi, i Kirundo ntakigenda, mu Kabanza ntakigenda, ubwo ni mu gisirikari, muri camp muzi…Muzinda na ho ngo nta kigenda. Mu Burundi rero murumva ko amahoro y’aho na Museveni ngo ugiye kujya kubareba sinzi icyo azaba abajyaniye, ee…izo mpozamarira azabajyanira hah, simbizi. Wenda azajya kwenyegeza no kwatsamo sinabimenya, ubwo ngubwo tubi…ni ukubitega amaso.

14:05

FPR na yo rero, ati MOPI ya O na Ficu ya R.P.F.[inaudible]hein? Iyo rero ni inama yabaye ya FPR yo kureba mu…ukuntu ibintu bizagenda mu bihe biri imbere na za propositions n’icyo babitekerezaho. Iyo nama ndayifite rwose bangiriye neza barayinyoherereza, ni ibipapuro cumi na bine simbisoma byose, uyu munsi ndabasomera igice kimwe nzajya ndagenda mbasomera gahoro gahoro uko ngiye kuri antennes mbahaho agace kamwe kugira ngo mbamare amatsiko. Reka mbasomere kuri iyo comité yasanze uko ibyo…ibibazo bafite byakwigwa neza, eh, bantoranirijemo rero izi ngingo zikurikira:

15:02

Ngizo muri FPR…ibibazo muri FPR bafite:

- Icya mbere: ibya ngombwa kugira ngo mobilisation nyayo ibeho, ni cyo bagomba kwiga.

- Icya kabiri: gusobanukirwa neza society iri mu Rwanda, ni yo bagomba kwiga. Bagasobanukirwa neza na FPR ukuntu Abanyarwanda bifashe muri iki gihe. Gusobanukirwa neza amashyaka ya politiki ar mu Rwanda ubu, bakayasobanukirwa neza yose. Bo bariga, ndababwira ukuntu biga. Kugeza ubu mobilisation yari O, O rero ntabwo aba…kandi ntabwo bansobanuriye ariko ndabaza nzagaruka nkazi. (Icya gatatu. a): twabikoraga…twabikoraga dute? O…muri O hagomba kuba ari mu Rwanda hagati, (icya gatatu b): muri O babikoraga bate? (Icya kane): twakwitegura dute, icyo ni icya gatanu, e…akazi ka mobolisa…ka mobili…mobilisation muri O? Muri O hagomba kuba ari mu Rwanda.

A, A. Abanyamuryango bacu ban hanze.

Icyakabiri: abayobozi.

Icya gatatu: abanyamuryango bacu bari muri O one na O two. Tuzakora dute nitumara kugera muri O two? Ububasha bwa rp…R.P.F. no gukomera mu butegetsi binyuze mu matora nyumay’amezi makumyabiri n’abiri y’Inzibacyuho. Ibi byose byarizwe, uko R.P.F. izamera mu bihe bizaza, byarizwe. Actions programme, gahunda y’ibikorwa, ibyo byose byarizwe.

Ndavuna nsimbuka kugira ngo…, byose sinabisoma ngo…ngo mbirangize ariko kandi nda…hari aho bagize bati «tugomba gusobanukirwa neza society iri mu Rwanda». Ni iki re…society iri mu Rwanda ukuntu bo bayisobanura. Muri rusange twasanze u Rwanda rurangwa n’ibi bikurikira:

17:00

- Amacakubiri ashingiye ku koko n’uturere, ni ko mu Rwanda bo bazi ko bimeze.

- Mu Rwanda bazi ko harimo ubujiji, primary and secondary, hein, ubujiji rwose ari état primaire na secondaire no kutiga…kutiga no kutu…kudasobanukirwa. Abo ni Banyarwanda.

- Mirongo cyenda na gatanu ku ijana batunzwe n’ubuhinzi, barabizi.

- Mu Rwanda haracyari ubuhake, barabizi.

- Mu Rwanda umuco bita «conservatisme»,hein?

- Ati «mu Rwanda hari icyo bita «superstition», hein, superstition.

- Ati «mu Rwanda hari icyo bita «close society», société fermée.

- Abanyarwanda barya bikubiraho, ngo nuko uko utubona twikubiraho, twikubiraho. Nta Munyarwanda ugira ngo wenda yafasha undi, ni bake. Kereka wenda nk’Abatutsi. Soci…société fermée.

- Abanyarwanda baracyafite ibitekerezo bya gikolonize, ni «Abakoloniyale».

- Ariko iyo witegereje usanga inzego n’ ibice bitanduka…bitandukanye by’Abanyarwanda bafite ibibaranga byihariye. Ibiranga Abanyarwanda rero:

- Hari ibiranga Abanyarwanda bandika…- Han ibiranga abatize.

- Ibiranga abize.

Abatize :

- Ngo barangwa n’ubujiji bwinshi.

- Ntibazi «politika» zabo, leers droits politiques.

- Ngo batinya abategetsi iyo bababwiye ibibari ku mutima.

- Barakennye cyane, abatize barakennye cyane.

- Ngo baringunze.

- Abo bara…heh, baraducengeye baratwiga.

- Abize na bo rero:

- Basuzugura abatize, superiority complex.

- Kandi bagatinya.

- Bakaba bafite…abize bafite inferiority complex. Heeh! Ngo baratinya kandi barize, hnahah! Abize ntibagira umurongo bagenderaho.

Ngo ni abantu bitwa «oporumitiste», abantu nyine ba…bayora, akaboko karekare, iyo babibonye baracakira. Haahah!

- Abakozi ba Leta nka ba Docteurs, ba Dogiteri, ba Veterineri, Officers, heh, bariya ba Veterineri bakuru ba…e…eh, ba Dogiteri Veterineri kandi bakora n…akazi ka Leta, bitwara nk’abategetsi atari bo. Bo bafunga aho bashakiye hose, wajya mu biro ugasanga Docteur yafunze, eh, Dogiteri Veterineri na we pa yakubiseho urugi saa yine yigendeye, ni Inzibacyuho. Hun?

- Ngo bafite ububasha burenze umurimo bashinzwe.

E…mukavuga ngo Inkotanyi ngo ntizaducengeye ngo zitwige, ni mwumve namwe. Ngo bavuga ibibari ku mutima

- Abize mu Rwanda ntibavuga ibibari ku mutima.

- Ngo ba RUTEMAYEZE, ngo ni ba RUTEMAYEZE, opportunistes byanditse no mu gifaransa. - Ngo ntibazi umurongo bagenderaho, opportunistes twongere tubisubizemo.

Bati rero amakimbirane ashobora kuboneka mu Rwanda.

Bitewe n’iki?

- Bitewe n’Abahutu n’Abatutsi, batera amakimbirane.

- Abakiga n’Abanyenduga batera amakimbirane…

Ibi byose babigendaho,.

- Gisenyi na Ruhengeri ngo na bo batera amakimbirane.

Abashiru ngo n’Abagoyi ngo batera amakimbirane.

- Ibya Loni n’ibindi na za Arusha byatera amakimbirane.

- Abize n’abatize babasekuranya.

- Ba kazu n’abaturage babasekuranya.

- Impunzi n’abari mu gihugu na bo babasekuranya. Mwumve stratégie y’aba bantu! 20min00sec Comité rero yabo biga ibi bintu yasanze ko nubwo lisiti y’amakimbirane ari ndende, amenshi muri ayo ntabwo akomeye kuko ashingiye kuri one basic contradiction ari yo hagati y’akazu na rubanda. Hein! Amakimbirane ari hagati y’akazu na rubanda. Ako kazu mu myaka ya kera ya mbere y’ubukolonize…, mbere y’ubukoloni rero ako kazu baku…e…kakomeje kugirwa n’Abatutsi bake ariko noneho bategekwa n’Abazungu. Hein! Abo Batutsi bake 01 tousse) bagezaho na bo bakajya bategekwa n’Abazungu. Nyuma y’ugusubirana ubwigenge muri mirongo itandatu na kabiri ako kazu kabaye aka KAYIBANDA n’ibyegera bye cyane cyane byavaga mu majyepfo y’igihugu. Muri iki igihe rero akazu kagizwe…, hen, mwumve ukuntu babyize…na HABYALIMANA n’ibyegera bye.

20:07

Comite yasanze abaturage benshi mu gihugu bazi kumenya the basic contradiction ko ari akazu. Hun, bizatuma rero, bizatuma FPR akazi kabo, bati «akazi kacu ka mobiIisation koroha», mwumve namwe.

Bati «mureke musobanukirwe neza amashyaka ya politique ari mu Rwanda». Ndabasomera iby’amashyaka noneho ndekere aho ibindi nzabibasomera e…ejo mbese.

Gusobanukirwa neza amashyaka ya politique ari mu Rwanda.

M.D.R.: M.D.R. izwi ite muri FPR?

- M.D.R. ni PARMEHUTU yagarutse yambaye uruhu ry’igihe tugezemo, yiyita ko ivuguruye. - Umuryango wabo wa po…umurongo wayo wa politiki ntusobanutse.

- Baracyashimagiza mbere na mbere ubwinshi bw’Abahutu.

- Bashaka abayoboke bakoresheje gufatira abantu ku sentiments, ku eh, ku…ku…ku marangamutima ngo ibyo ari byose turi Abahutu, turi Abahutu gusa, ni ibyo no gutinya ko a…nk’uko…nk’uko batsinze nko gutsinda kwabo ko muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda.

- M.D.R. ikorera mu gihugu ariko kubera amakimbirane ari mu buyobozi e…e…bashyize imbere…mu buyobozi, abayobozi bashyize imbere inyungu zabo bwite, «oporutinesi» n’abashingiye ku bitekerezo bishaje bibangikanye n’iby’abashaka change, changement, changement.

- Inzego na zo ziracyajegajega.

- Nta bwitange, engagement bafite, ababasha. nk’abo bafite nyine.

- Ikimenyimenyi ni amikoro y’ishyaka ngo make.

- Ariko rero bafite abantu benshi.

- Ubu harimo ibice bibiri birwanira ubuyobozi bw’Umuryango. Aha ngaha reka (aseka) [inaudible] (arimyoje) yewe reka akandi ndakababwira mu kanya.

22:03

Yewe nk’uko bamaze kubimenyesha bati «yee…TWAGIRAMUNGU Fawustini amaze gukoresha conférence de presse», yee Enock yantelefoneye ku Kacyiru, ati «bamaze kuvuga ko icyo yemera, icyo yemera rwose icyo yemera ni uko abatowe muri P.L. mbere ari bo rwose yemera kuko ari bo bazaba Abadepite ko nta bandi azi, nta bandi azi nta n’abandi azamenya». Umva kandi!

None se ubu ngubu (aseka) ko ishyaka P.L. e…Notaire avuga ko a…nta n’iryo akimenya, TWAGIRAMUNGU yaje kurivumbura he, hen, Notaire avuga ko nta ryo amenya? Simbizi. Cyangwa ubwo bgubwo afite ukuntu yajya kumusinyisha iryo rya mbere ryo Notaire avuga ko na ryo atakirimenya! Ubwo wenda arabunga aba…abahe n’Abadepite nk’uko bari babatoye wenda simbizi, abahe umuti bawunywe babyemere.

Inyungu za M.D.R. rero zishingiye ku bujiji bw’Abanyarwanda bagendera cyane cyane ku irondakoko, ab ’ irondakarere, linen, bita mu cyongeleza «specu…e…spectaliani…e…lianisme…«Spectalianisme».

P.L. rero ki…P.L. yo ni iki?

- Ubundi yitwa ko ishingiye ku bitekerezo byo Kwishyira Ukizana ari mu by’ubukungu ari no mu bya politique. [inaudible]liberalize both economic and political.

- Ikabona gufashwa na Liberals za…b’Abazungu. Hum!

- Yazanye ibitekerezo bishya mu Banyarwanda iyobokwa n’impuguke n’urubyiruko rwo mu mujyi cyane cyane

Abatutsi na bo barayiyobotse kuko M.R.N.D. na M.D.R. yatangiye mbere yarahezaga ryo rutara…e…ritarobanura.

- P.L. ryiganje i Kigali n’i Kibungo ahandi ifite intege nke.

- Mu majyaruguru ntigerayo naho abatu…abayoboke bayo ntibari coIlect kuko benshi bayigiyemo kuko ari ryo ritavangura gusa.

- Abarigiyemo na bo ha…rizamo ibitekerezo bishya basigaye babyumvana FPR b…abarigiyemo na bo barigiyemo kuko ryari rizanye ibitekerezo rishya, basigaye babyumvana FPR ndetse n’andi mashyaka.

- Kwitirirwa Inkotanyi n’Abatutsi byaciye intege bamwe mu bayoboke bayo kubera kuba mu gihugu kiganje kwironda.

24:02

Ubuyobozi bwaryo ntibuhamye, abenshi muri bo ni opportunistes kandi inzego zaryo ntizirashingwa.

Kubera ibyo byose rero byavuzwe hejuru, mobilisation ya P.L. ifite ibibazo kandi ubuyobozi bwayo burimo amakimbirane. Biravugwa mu rwandiko KAMEYA yigeze kwandika anenga ishyaka rye n’amakimbirane avugwa hagati ya MUGENZI na Lando.

P.S.D.:

Umurongo wa politique wayo ni Ukurengera Inyungu za Rubanda rugufi. Ikunze kugibwamo n’Abatutsi batinya kujya muri P.L. ngo bada…badatote…batatotezwa hamwe n’Abahutu cyane cyane b’injijuke batemera irondakoko rya M.D.R.

Intangira…itangira yari mu maboko ya GATABAZI aho ayiko…ayikoresheje amakosa yari…

e…aho ayikoreshereje amakosa yarivuguruye.

Kugeza ubu ikaba bya…byati…itagitirimuka ku bitekerezo byayo bigenda birushaho kugira umurongo uhamye.

- Kandi abayobozi bayo bavuga rumwe bagafatira hamwe ibyemezo.

- P.S.D. na yo ntikorera mu gihugu cyose.

-Ifite urubyiruko ruhagu…e…ruhagurukiye kurwanya akazu, ni Abakombozi.

- Na ryo ntiriri mu gihugu cyose ryibanze muri Butare, Kigali na Gikongoro.

25:04

M.R.N.D.:

- Yivuguruye mu izina ariko iracyashingiye kuri politique y’ivangura, ibinyoma n’ibi…n’iterabwoba. Iyo ni…ni FPR ibivuga.

- Umubare w’abayishyigikiye uhora ugabanyuka. Ni f…ni FPR ibivuga.

Ifite structures zikomeye mu Rwanda hose na experiences.

- Ni ugukora ariko ubutegetsi bwabo kubera ibibi byinshi ee…tuburega ngo ee…yanzwe bihagije.

- I…igendera ku ngufu ifite mu…mu butegetsi ku nzego zose.

Ifite umutungo uhagije n’amaboko kuko itegeka ingabo n’inzego zishinzwe kurengera amategeko.

- Yishyiriyeho Itegeko Nshinga igihugu kigenderaho.

- Ifite udushyaka tuyikorera ikaduha agaciro ikoresheje igitugu ngo turengere inyungu z’akazu ngo byitirirwe rubanda.

Icyitonderwa: hari udushyaka duto twigenga nka PSR, P.D.I., n’utundi.

- Nta ngufu dufite ariko twigisha ibitekerezo e…e…kuri FPR, byiza.

- Twadukoreramo, e…FPR yadukoreramo, tukereka Abanyarwanda ukuri.

- Amashyaka M.D.R. na P.L. afite amakimbirane manini mu buyobozi, ubuyobozi bw’aya mashyaka bugizwe hafi ya bose na ba RUTEMAYEZE, aya mashyaka yose, hnun…bugizwe hafi ya bose na ba RUTEMAYEZE, na ba opportunistes.

- Nta murongo wa politique uboneye bafite.

Eh…murumva rero ni byo nta manegu, amanegu ya FPR ku mashyaka yee…reka ari [inaudible]muri iki gihugu, ndabona batavuze C.D.R. banza iyo bagiye kuyivugaho bumva ibinyugunyugu bibazaho ntibanayitekereze nta hantu na mbese ishyaka C.D.R. bavugamo na busa na busa, na busa! Ubwo bafite ukuntu babitekereza cyangwa bahisemo kuvuga ko batayizi [inaudible].

Mu minota cumi n’ibiri…cumi n’itatu ubwo turaba dufite saa mbiri hano i Kigali. Mukomeze mwumva uwo muzika. (Musique)

27:00

Hari abantu basigaye bandika mu binyamateka ngo Noheli yaravuze ngo…hari abagiye ku Mulindi «gukotiza» ngo bathe e…cassette video yabyo ngo ibyo bintu ngo Noheli mukumva…kugira gute…

Yemwe iyo ibintu biriho urabivuga. Ese nyine…ati mbese ko batanze umusanzu w’ingabo inkuru…hari umuntu utarabivuze? Hari utarabivuze aho ikibazo cyavuyemo? Hari umuntu utabizi? Ati «ubu ibyo nzi [inaudible]umusanzu wa wa M.R.N.D.? Hun! Hari utarabivuga se! Utabivuga ni utari mu Rwanda se hari utarabivuga se? Kuki bajyaga muri animation se? Hari utarabivuga se? Buri kintu n’igihe cyacyo, kandi ikibaye tukakivuga nta Radiyo, ni cyo imaze. Ubu turabibuka rwose abazababara bazababare. [inaudible]duce ukubiri kubera ko mbivuze bazabonereho no kwiga e…journalisme wenda hah…ishobora abizemo. Nzababwira ukuri banyigishije ko ari ko ngomba gukora, we niba atarabyize rero, uwitwa Sam, uwitwa nde. Be kujya bavuga ngo Noheli yavuze ngo ku itariki iyi n’iyi ko abantu bagiye gusora amafaranga ngo ko…ku Mulindi, ayo mafaranga yari ayo kwica NDADAYE!

27:08

Ibintu byavuzwe mu kwezi kwa munane NDADAYE bakamwica mu kwa cyenda, Noheli yari yahimbye ko NDADAYE azapfa? Cyangwa uwo nguwo mu gutanga amafaranga yari azi koko ayo ari gutanga ari ayo kugira ngo bazajye kwica NDADAYE. Ibintu…bajye gusoma ibyo maze kwandika babisubiremo basome neza kubifa…kubifatisha mu byo nanditse bisa n’uguye mu mutego. Bajye barasoma neza rero.

Ahubwo ibi ngibi ndi kubasomera ni inyigisho nyinshi twahawe na FPR. Hein? Iyo ba…babigusobanuriye ko ari ibinyamakuru…

28:00

(The rest of the tape is blank)

End of Side A

Side B

[The first section of this side is blank)

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

15:03

ariko ngo umuntu ashobora gufunga undi akamufungira ahantu ariko nta wushobora gufunga umutwe we ngo awubuze gutekereza. Reka rero noneho dutekereze turebe igishobora kuba iyo congrès abapadiri bavuga iramutse ibaye. Iramutse ibaye koko noneho M.D.R.-power igatora TWAGIRAMUNGU ntimutore, ndetse ahubwo kubera ngo ko yayihemukiye ikamwirukana, ikamwirukana. Tugasubira rero kuri ya masezerano y’Arusha avuga ko Ministre w’Intebe azava mu ishyaka M.D.R. kandi akaba ari TWAGIRAMUNGU. Iyo congrès rero iteranye ikamwirukana ni ukuvuga ko TWAGIRAMUNGU yaba atakiri uwo muri M.D.R. ko yaba rero atagishoboye gushyiraho iyo Guverinoma. Ngicyo icya mbere. Ngicyo ikintu cya mbere gishobora kuba, simvuga ko ari ko kizaba ariko birashoboka.

Ikindi, mu masezerano y’Arusha bavuga ko Président w’Inteko Ishinga Amategeko azava mu ishyaka P.S.D. cyangwa akava mu ishyaka P.L. Noneho batora, hahita umuntu wo muri P.S.D., P.L. ikaba yatanga umukandida kuri Visi présidence ya mbere. Inkotanyi ziti, mu ibaruwa zanditse murayibuka ni itangazo Inkotanyi zasohoye ariko itariki ntayo mfite Kano ariko ndibuka ko zavuze ziti «amacakubiri akomeje mu ishyaka P.L. ntabwo P.L. yajya muri Guverinoma».

Ikibazo rero kikaba iki: ko bavuga ko umukandida wo kuri présidence yava muri P.S.D. cyangwa muri P.L., noneho P.L. itahita igashyiraho umukandida cyangwa P.S.D. igashyiraho uwo mukandida kuri première Vice-présidence, kuri Vice-présidence umwanya wa [inaudible]présidence ya mbere. Tuvuge rero ko Inkotanyi zibivuga, ibyo biramutse bibaye byo bati noneho P.L. kubera amacakubiri arimo, bati P.L. ntijye murio Guverinoma. Ni ukuvuga noneho ko amatora yagenda ate muri…mu mwanya wa Président w’Inteko Ishinga Amategeko no mu mwanya wa premiere vice-présidence ya…President wa…w’Inteko Ishinga Amategeko?

Murumva rem ko ari ihurizo. Ubanze amasezerano y’Arusha ashobora kuzasubirwamo, bitagenze neza hari ikintu kigomba kuzahinduka mu masezerano y’Arusha p…P.L. iramutse itagiye mud Guverinoma cyangwa se vuruguvurugu yo muri M.D.R. itarangiye, itarangiye mu bwiyunge ubanza amasezerano y’Arusha abenshi bibwira ko ari umutamenwa ahubwo yaba [inaudible].

17:09

Murumva R.T.L.M., Radiyo yanyu Radiyo yigenga. Ubu tugize saa tatu n’iminota mirongo itatu n’ ine muri studios zacu. Abatashoboye rero kutwumva kare ndagira ngo mbere yo kubasezeraho mbabwire amakuru y’ingenzi twavuze kuri uyu mugoroba.

- Iya mbere: ni uko Inkotanyi makumyabiri n’esheshatu zasesekaye hano i Kigali uyu munsi zikaba ziri muri Hotel Méridien Umubano, zikaba zazanywe no guhitamo aho abategetsi ba FPR bazajya muri Guverinoma y’Inzivacyuho yaguye bazatura n’aho ya bataillon y’Inkotanyi magana atandatu zizajya hano mu mujyi wa Kigali.

Twibutse ko Inkotanyi zashakaga kuba muri C.N.D., camp Kacyiru, camp Kimihurura na camp Kigali. Amakuru atugeraho rero aratubwira ko abategetsi ba FPR bashobora kuzaba koko muri C.N.D. muri Hotel…muri Hôtel irimo yitwa Hôtel Amajyambere, noneho ya bataillon y’Inkotanyi magana atandatu zikaba haft aho, bamwe bakavuga muri camp Kami ariko twababwiye ko b…atari byo ko…camp Kami ahubwo ee…abasirikare bazayigumamo ahubwo bagashakira Inkotanyi aho zaba haft aho ya C.N.D.

Igituma rero umuntu yakeka koko Inkotanyi zizaba muri Hotel Amajyambere, ni uko mu ma saa kumi uyu munsi Ministre GASANA Anastase ushinzwe Ububanyi n’Amahanga abakozi be bamubonye ashyashyana muri. Minisiteri ashaka abantu bo kumuherekeza ngo ajye kugenzura

C.N.D. ukagira ngo ntiyari asanzwe ayizi.

Abagiye kuri C.N.D. batubwiye ko bahabonye Inkotanyi cumi n’ebyiri n’abasirikare ba MINUAR barimo kuhasura bakatubwira kandi ko babonaga Inkotanyi z’amarere zishimiye kuzifatira Inteko Ishinga Amategeko bitazigoye zibinyujije gusa mu nzira y’ amayeri…(une brève interruption de quelques secondes)

19:05

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

19:07

ariko yenda buhoro buhoro ibintu bizagenda bihinduka. Ikibazo rero muri P.S.D. cy’uturere cyabonetse koko, kuko umuntu witwa RAFIKI Hyacinthe, uwo bits RAFIKI Hyacinthe ya…ni Umunyagisenyi yashakaga rwose kujya mu nzego za P.S.D. hun…ngo berekane rwose ko P.S.D. ikomeye ku Gisenyi.

Ndibuka ko yigeze kuvuga muri meeting, ndakeka ahari ko ban i Butare ee…cyangwa se i Gitarama avuga yuko P.S.D. ari ishyaka rifite abayoboke benshi cyane e…benshi cyane muri Gisenyi ndetse rikarusha ahari i Butare. Ee…Hyacinthe rero na we na none hari igihe ya…yaje guhimbarwa noneho aza kuvuga yuko ee…hnen…umu…Umunyagisenyi…, sinzi akarere ko

Gisenyi avukamo, ariko yigeze kuvuga rwose…, byanahise no kuri Radiyo Rwanda avuga atI ni ikiganiro yagiraga avuga ati «mfite isoni byo kwitwa Umunyagisenyi». Heh (byo guseka), sinzi rero aho yabivugiraga, yagira ago hari bandi bashobora kumushima. Iyo wigaye (aseke), iyo wigaye ufite aho ukomoka u…ukigayira mu kandi karere uba ugira ngo se abo ko ka…abo mu karere aka ngako wigayiyemo bakubahe na we ubwawe utiyubashye!

Hyacinthe rero yashakaga kuba Vice-president wa kabiri mu ishyaka P.S.D., hanyuma noneho aza ku…kwiyamamaza kuri uwo mwanya na Docteur GAFARANGA, Docteur GAFARANGA rwose wakomeje kugaragaza ibitekerezo bye ee…cyane cyane yerekana ko afatanyije n’Inkotanyi cyane ee…(musique)…yuko koko ee…Docteur GAFARANGA yagiye kubaga…, ni anesthésiste n’Inkotanyi zitaraza.

Nyuma rero ku byerekeye ibyo ngibyo byo kwisuzugura, nababwiye yuko bitangaje kubona umuntu asaba kwinjira mu ishyaka nk’usaba Imana iyo ari umunyabyaha asaba Imana kujya mu ijuru. Dore nk’iyi nyandiko yagendaga mu «bakongresiste» muri C.N.D., namwe nyibasomere uranteye abantu muzi gutegereza mumbwire icyo umuntu yayitekerezaho.

Baravuga bati «barwanashyaka dukunda nimugire ubwisungane yo nkingi y’ishyaka ryacu mukunze kuvuga yuko ari ishyaka ry’akarere, twe ntitwabyemera kubera amatwara mwigisha yo kutavangura ubwoko n’uturere. Iyo nyigisho twari twa…twari twasanze ari nziza ariko biratangaje kubona tugeze mu kwinjira mu myanya y’ishyaka ngo u Rukiga niruhezwe, igihe bene wacu batumariye ku icumu batuziza yuko ngo turi ibyitso by’Abanyenduga.None koko mudutabye mu nama nk’ uko bene wacu babivuze?

21:09

Nta mwanya dusaba mu nzego nkuru z’ubutegetsi bw’igihugu kuko iyo myanya yamaze guhabwa abayobozi, ariko se mu ishyaka na ho ngo mudufungiye imiryango? Abarwanya demokarasi bakaba batifuza ko ubutegetsi buhinduka mu matora adafifitse, bakoze amayeri yo gufindafinda umwanya wa trésorier mu buyobozi bukuru bw’ishyaka, «prefegitura» za ruguru nizirwanire uwo mwanya.

22:02

Présidence na Vice-présidence by’ishyaka P.S.D. ngo ni itako ry’umutware ku ha…kw’Abanyenduga. Murakoze, mudute…muduteje Interahamwe n’Impuzamugambi ubu zigiye kudushungera no kudushoka. Akabaye icwende ntikoga koko. Mugire Noheli nziza n’umwaka mushya muhire.

Bikorewe i Kigali mu ngoro ya C.N.D., tariki ya cumi n’umunani Ukuboza igihumbi kimwe magana cyenda mirongo cyenda na gatatu. Ngo abarwashyaka bakunda P.S.D. nta buryarya.

Ni munyumvire! Cyokora, simbizi ariko, ibi bya politique ngo turi…kandi ubu ngubu iri tangazo ngo ryanditswe n’abantu baharanira imyanya muri politique, ikomeye ariko rero na bo ubwabo umugani nka NDADAYE, abantu bakomeye m…(une brève interruption) itangazo nongeye gusubiramo rya ra…na none birukanye muri P.S.D. w’«umukongresiste», w’«umukongresiste» basohoye mu nama ngo kuko bamubonanye na NYUNGURA, gusa! Cyakoza koko mu kanya banyeretse impapuro, udupapuro dutoya e…twa interview aho NYUNGURA yari ya…yateguye ibyo ari buvugire hano kuri Radiyo R.T.L.M. mwumvise, utwo dupapuro rero uwo mugabo yadutoraguye adushyira mu mufuka ariko abantu bameze nka ba maneko b’ishyaka bamukurikiranye bati «uriya muntu twamubonanye na NYUNGURA yari «umukongresiste» watowe watumiwe ariko bamu…bamusohoye mu nama ntiyashobora gutora. Eh…uwo mugabo rero nimwumve urwo yahaboneye kimwe na NYUNGURA ubu ahari na we arimo ararira, yari azi ko ishyaka…afatanyije n’abantu…

23:05

Ariko kuri ibyo bya NYUNGURA ndibaza nti ese umenya hun…ha…hari ikintu nagerageje kwibaza navuze nti ariko abavuga ngo P.S.D. ni ishyaka ry’i Butare, NYUNGURA ni Umunyabutare wo muri Commune Huye yari yaryitabiriye arijyamo. Noneho ee…aryitabiriye rero noneho…a…hari abantu bagiye bambaza bati «ariko Abanyabutare bakunda Abanyabutare»? Bon, (arasetse) simbizi ni ikibazo ariko Abanyabutare kubera ko kera babonye Abazungu kare ni ikintu…umenya barakuriye mu muco w’Abazungu noneho buri muntu akaba nyamwigendaho e…ntibakundirane ahari. Hun!

24:00

E…byatumye nibuka ikintu, byatumye nibuka ikintu. Nibutse Ministre yuko GATABAZI wenyine muri conseil du Guverinoma yari irimo abantu makumyabiri ni we…ee…hari ukuntu dossier ya GAHIGI Gaspard n’ iyanjye HABIMANA Kantano twagiye…basabye yuko twasubira muri Leta, tugasubira muri ORINFOR aho twakoraga mbere yuko tujya muri M.R.N.D. e…gukorayo mu kinyamakuru Umurwanashyaka, noneho GATABAZI we ubwe wenyine a…Abaministre bandi bari bazi uko dukora, uko tumeze nta kintu bashoboraga ku…ntibavugaga yuko turi abaswa, ntibari bazi ko dufite amashuri make, hein! Ariko GATABAZI wenyine ni we wavuyemo aravuga ngo «ahneh, heh, ngo izo Nterahamwe tugomba kuzikanda nimubanze dukore anketi zitabaho hanyuma abo bantu turebe ko ari bazima babone gusubira muri ORINFOR.

Ubwo se iyo tutaza ee…kugira Imana ngo iyi Radiyo R.T.L.M., iyi Radiyo yanyu ivuke abarwanashyaka bayishyireho noneho tuherekanire ubushobozi bwacu ubu abana bacu baba bishwe n’inzara, ubu tuba turwaye amavunja tuzisa. Yenda KAYIGI. ni umunya…Umunyabyumba da! Ariko se nkanjye Umunyabutare nka GATABAZI yari ampoye iki? Yari ampoye iki ngo ne gusubira muri ORINFOR ahantu nakundaga, ahantu nabaye igihe kinini? Umva nta…nta…simbimwangiye, si iki a…ariko ndashaka yuko we yenda yaba umudemokarate e…ubudemokarate rero ntiyangira undi ko ari mu rindi shyaka.

E…ndumva rero NYUNGURA, NYUNGURA ni ukujya ansanga tukaganira uretse yuko tudahuje ibibazo, we yakoze ishyano, akoze icyaha…akora icyaha de «lese majesté» gushaka gufata umwanya wa GATABAZI, amwerekera rero aho…aho amurushiriza ingufu, ni uko.

25:05

Eh, ku kibazo rero cya Hyacinthe RAFIKI wari ugiye gutorwa ngo wiyamamarizaga umwanya wo kuba vi…e…Visi Président wa kabiri. Abantu rero basakuzaga bati «iri shyaka P.S.D. rigiye kuyoborwa n’akazu». Kubera ko RAFIKI, RAFIKI mushiki we afitwe na Koloneli RUTAYISIRE, cyangwa ni we ufite eh…RAFIKI ni we yarongoye ee…mushiki wa Koloneli RUTAYISIRE. Koloneli RUTAYISIRE rero ni musanzire wa GATABAZI Bose bafite umwana…ba…bafite umukobwa wa NDAMAGE. Ngo ba…ba…[inaudible]. Hanyuma noneho bakavuga bati «rero ubu iri shyaka rigiye kuba iry’akazu». Nadakeka yuko ari aho ngaho RAFIKI yaburiye amajwi, ariko rero n’iby’akarere ntibya…ntibyabura. Maze rero twumve…

26:01

Ee…navugaga yuko NYUNGURA turi mu…mu gace kamwe, ubundi nta muntu wari ukwiye kwangira undi ko ari mu rindi shyaka cyangwa se ko ashaka kugutwara umwanya kuko ni. ni uburenganzira bwe. Ibyo rero nta mwanya nashakaga gutwara GATABAZI kandi na NYUNGURA na wo…na we awufashe bagatoranya na byo ntibyari bibi ariko rero si ko bimeze. Ariko abantu batekereza kimwe…Hinga rero mwumve uwo muntu wo mu Ruhengeri ibyago yagize byo kuzura na NYUNGURA.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

Amakimbirane arakomeje mu Ishyaka Riharanira Demokarasi n’Imibereho myiza y’Abaturage, P.S.D. Tunyuze imbere y’ingoro ya C.N.D. aho congrès yayo ibera, duhura n’umusore IYAMUREMYE Etienne akaba ari «umukongresiste» wo muri Commune Mukingo, akaba na Secrétaire exécutif w’ishyaka P.S.D. muri Mukingo. Mbese mu yandi yashyaka twamwita Président wa P.S.D. muri Commune Mukingo. Uwo musore rero duhura yijujuta cyane avuga na we ko bamuroshye hanze tukagira ngo abwire bumva R.T.L.M. igitumye bamuroshye hanze yari «umukongresiste» kandi yaratangiye akurikira imirimo y’ iyo congrès. IYAMUREMYE Etienne.

Speaker: Etienne IYAMUREMYE, President of the P.S.D. in Mukingo Commune

- Done hashize igihe nyobora ishyaka P.S.D. muri Commune Mukingo kandi ndi n’«umukongresiste» naratumiwe kandi nari ndi présent, nanjye nari mpari. Birababaje rero kugira ngo mbe nahageze en tout cas, niba nari ndi présent hanyuma bakanyi…ba…bakambuza kwinjira aho ngaho.

Speaker: Gaspard GAHIGI

27:03

- Ni cyo tubaza nyine, bakuburije iki kwinjira? Bakubujije kwinjira bavuze ko ba [inaudible]?

- Yee…naturutse ahantu mu icumbi nari naraye hanyuma baza kuvuga ko ngo bambonanye n’ umurwanashyaka Emile NYUNGURA kandi nkaba muziho ubutwari, akaba ari n’umuntu waharaniye ishyaka P.S.D. mu gibe nari ntakaribayemo. C’ est dommage alors kuko twabanye; en plus uretse no kubana yarwaniye ishyaka igihe kirekire. Ubwo ni ngombwa rero ko kubana na NYUNGURA Emile ari igitangaza nk’uko nabana n’undi murwanshyaka were w’ibitekerezo bizima.

- Tuvuge noneho ko bakwirukanye bakwita icyitso cya NYUNGURA Emile?

- Correct, correct. Banyirukanye banyita ko ndi umurwanashyaka wa P.S.D. mais bavuga ko ndi icyitso cya NYUNGURA Emile.

- None rero bakwirukanye ubu amatwara mashya mu ishyaka ni ayahe? Wabwira iki abasigaye muri iyo congrès? Wabwira iki abayoboke wasize muri Mukingo wari waje guhagararira?

- Barwanashyaka rero Ies membres du congrès qui sont hn…bari hariya muri congrès, mbibutse ko ibintu bits akazu uko byaje. Kuvuga ko uriya Visi Président GATABAZI ashaka gushyigikira muramu we Hyacinthe bicam…. Hyacinthe ni Diregiteri.du cabinet au Ministère, mais ntabwo bivuga ko rero…ibyo ngibyo ni akazu quand même.

- En fait hari inkuru yangezeho nyine wa…abanyamakuru tugira amatwi maremare yumva cyane, ivuga ko hari tracts zakwijwe muri congrès ya P.S.D. zivuga ko batora uwo mugabo Directeur de cabinet ngo kuko ari Umukiga. Noneho muri P.S.D. harimo ibibazo by’uturere? 29min00sec - Yee…muri P.S.D. ibibazo by’uturere bi…biraboneka cyane.

Ko bakwirukanye muri congrès se ibyo bintu byo kuvuga ngo batore uwo mugabo kuko ari Umukiga ngo kugira ngo basaranganye imyanya, iyo tract wumvise bayivuga cyangwa wakwirukanye utarabyumva?

Banyirukanye ntarabyumva ariko Bien avant nari barabyumvise. Nabyumvise séparement, numvise ko ngo bashaka gutora les gens du ford, ngo ni hariya muri za communes za ba HABYALIMANA aho bavuka, muri c’est-à-dire muri za communes bavukamo. Ni ukuvuga ko rero bo ubu bumvise ko agomba [inaudible]akazu. Akazu kandi njyewe ntabwo ngashaka. N’abandi bose uretse njyewe n’abandi bose ntabwo babyemera. Ahubwo ikintu de spécial ni uko twese Abanyarwanda cyangwa se les gens du parti <dwakombata» pour attraper ikintu nakwita la libérté quoi.

29:09

Ariko njye birantangaza iyo uvuga uti «turwanye akazu», kandi ee…ubundi e…muri P.S.D. bavugaga ko ari akazu ka GATABAZI na NZAMURAMBAHO n’abandi bari ku mpande zabo, bavuze bati twongeremo Umukiga se si ko yabyita ?

- Correct. Ibyo ngibyo tubivuze, impamvu ari akazu ni uko Hyacinthe RAFIKI ari muramu wa NZAMURAMBAHO nako wa GATABAZI, ari…bafitanye ubumwe. Urumva kandi en plus on travaille à la [inaudible]

- Noneho wowe ukavuga uti RAFIKI uwo nguwo, RAFIKI ntabwo bamushyiriyemo ko ari

fiUmukiga ahubwo bamushyiriyemo ko ari muramu wa GATABAZI. Ni byo?

- Eh, ahubwo buriya kumushyiramo bamushyiramo.ko ari muramu wa GATABAZI gusa, naho ubundi nta yindi puissance afite.

- Noneho ee…nkubaze ee…bizage…ubwawe [inaudible]abantu bole [inaudible]wabwira aba Mukingo, abari muri congrès ni…ni umunota umwe.

- Bon, en réalité, Abanyamukingo rero mbibutse ko mugomba gutora mukurikije puissance. Ntabwo ari puissance yo kuvuga ngo mufite ibintu byabarengera cyangwa se ni…ni kazu kimwe nka biriya bya mbere. Buriya njyewe ndashaka kubabwira ko mwatora umuntu w’ingirakamaro, ni umuntu w’ingirakamaro ahubwo ntimuvuge ko…je n’aime pas ibintu…ibintu by’akazu. - Noneho uvuze iby’amatora binyibutsa ko n’ibyo uvuze…umugabo witwa RUGENERA Mariko ubu akaba ari Ministre w’Imari ashaka no gukomatanya uwo mwanya no kuba Trésorier w’ishyaka kuko muri statuts nshya za P.S.D. bateganya umwanya wa Trésorier national, RUGENERA atowe byakunyura?

31:03

Non.

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

Mukomeje kumva Radiyo yigenga R.T.L.M. Uwo rero wari umurwana…yari umurwanashyaka wa P.S.D. wari Président wa P.S.D…. Président wa P.S.D. muri Commune Mukingo, bamubonanye rero na NYUNGURA Emile ee…bamushinja ubugambanyi bamusohora mu matora ntiyashobora gutora. Mwumvi…mwumvaga rero agahinda ke ariko amatora ubwayo…amatora ubwayo [inaudible].

Ee…hari abantu rero bagiye babaza bati ee…hah, wavuze amatora n’amajwi abantu babonye ariko ntiwagiye uvuga abo bari bahanganye. Abo bari bahanganye rero hinga mbibabwire:

GATABAZI Felesiyani watorewe kuba Umunyamabanga wa…mukuru wa P.S.D., yatowe n’amajwi magana atanu n’atandatu ee…kuri magana atandatu na cumi n’a…n’atandatu. Ee…ni ukuvuga amajwi ijana na cumi yose yifashe. Ubwo rero we yari wenyine kuri uwo mwanya.

- Président wa P.S.D…. Président wa P.S.D. ni na we watowe e…NZAMURAMBAHO Frederiko watowe n’amajwi magana atanu na mirongo itandatu n’atatu, mirongo ine ntibagire icyo bandikaho, makumyabiri bakandika ibintu bikaba imfabusa, imfabusa zose ma…mirongo itandatu. E…na we nta wundi bari babangikanye.

- E…Premier Visi Président ni NGANGO wabonye amajwi magana ane na mirongo ine n’ atanu ee…yari abangikanye n’uwitwa GAHIGWA wo ku Gisenyi wabo…wabonye amajwi mirongo itanu n’ ane.

- Hanyuma umwanya ka kabiri wa Visi Président wa kabiri ni GAFARANGA Théoneste, mwumvise ko yari ahanganye n’igihangange RAFIKI Hyacinthe ukora muri MINITRAPE na we akaba Umunyagisenyi hanyuma noneho aza gutsindwa GAFARANGA amurusha amajwi atandatu kuko we yabonye maga…GAFARANGA yabonye magana atatu na cumi n’arindwi hanyuma uwo RAFIKI abona magana atatu na cumi na rimwe.

32:07

- Ee…ubwo ngubwo na none baje gutora…baje gutora noneho Umubitsi, Umubitsi rero wa P.S.D. uzajya ubika imari ya P.S.D., hen, ibintu nibigenda neza izanaba na nyinshi imishinga ikora neza. Bari abakandida bane, uwa RUGENERA RUGENERA yageze ku munota wa nyuma ngo bamugira inama yo gukuramo umwanya we, hanyuma rero mu bakandida bane abo bakandida bane rero umudamu witwa MUTUYIMANA Emeranse wo mu Ruhengeri ni we wa…akora muri Présidence ya Repubulika ni we wagize magana atatu mirongo itandatu n’ atanu, urumva ko yari kumwe n’abantu bane.

- Mbibutse rero ko ku mwanya wa Président hari NZAMURAMBAHO wenyine.

- Ku mwanya wa…w’Umunyamabanga mukuru w’ishyaka had GATABAZI wenyine. Hanyuma ku mwanya…e…n’abo ngabo mbese bari bafite imyanya bihariye nta wundi…nta wundi ubavuguruza.

33:04

Nta wuhisha inzu…nta wuhisha inzu ngo a…no ahishe umwotsi. Heh, heh (byo guseka). Ye? Radiyo yacu ntabwo ari BAVUGILIJE, ntabwo an BAVUGILIJE. Icyo KAMEYA yashatse kuvuga ariko na none iyo rife rifite icyo rivuga kuki se umuntu atarivuga? Kandi tutagomba kuniganwa ijambo. Hun! Ni ko bimeze rero nguko uko tubonye inkuru turayihutera igakora icyo

bikora…ubundi turi ba MBWIRABUMVA, uwumva akumva. Ibyo ari byo byose tugerageza kuvuga ukuri uko tukubonye kandi nta kibazo, nta kibazo ukuri kuravugwa, nguko uko bimeze.

Radiyo R.T.L.M. Saa yine zirabura iminota mikeya, mwumve uyu muziki mbere yuko mbagezaho ibyo muri Air Rwanda.

Iby’inama ee…conseil d’administration extraordinaire ya Air Rwanda yabaye ee…rimwe ba actionnaires ba Air Rwanda, ba actionnaires ba Air Rwanda barimo Leta y’u Rwanda ifitemo actions igihumbi na magana atatu, action imwe yo muri Air Rwanda ingana n’ibihumbi ijana eh, n’ibihumbi ijana. Ubwo rero Leta y’u Rwanda ni yo ifite amafaranga arenga miliyali hanyuma noneho hakabamo n’abandi muza kumva muri iki kiganiro.

Ejo rero inama yarateranye e…byihitirwa bidasanzwe, iyo nama rero kwari ukureba niba Air Rwanda igomba guseswa nka za Caisse d’épargne cyangwa se hari uburyo ishobora kubaho ikamara nti…ntisezwe ikaramba.

34:07

Speaker: Unidentified

Il y a réunion extraordinaire de la société Air Rwanda. L’assemblée avait à se prononcer sur l’avenir de cette société, ce suite à des pertes cumulées depuis 1984 dépassant largement le capital social. La restructuration e…demandant des interventions de l’ordre de 1.000.000.002, tandis que la…liquidation va avoisiner les frais de l’ordre de 2.000.000.007…2.000.000.008.

Comme cette restructuration donc n’ est pas…ou plutôt comme cette restucturation présente plus d’avantages, les actionnaires ont retenu…cette…ni retenus mais ils ont insisté sur les garanties fermes qui devraient être données par le gouvernement quand au remboursement des dettes fides [inaudible]. Its se sont prononcés sur l’urgence…

35:05

(The rest of the tape is blank)

End of Side A