Information
Date of Transmission16–17 May 1994
Name of TapeRTLM 2
SourceU.S. State Department
Prosecution ExhibitP103/2
Name of TranslatorFabien Nsengiyumva
Date of Translation12 October 1995
Original PDF

R.T.L.M. Tape 0002

Side A

[The beginning is cut]

Speaker: Unidentified

…Because, as this Canadian had said, there were about 13,000 people but the day before yesterday he declared that there were 4,900 people. Where did others go? Can he tell where others go? A lot of people who were at Amahoro Stadium or other places, at Roi Faiçal hospital, and who fled from the Cockroaches have affirmed that R.P.F. killed people taking Hutus, one by one or two… every hour or every some minutes and made them disappear. Where did these people go? Where did they go? It is beyond my understanding. Dallaire must, first of all, explain where he put these people. He cannot deny his being aware of the killing of these people. He knew. [End]

[Short part of a song]

[The beginning of this French broadcast is not clear]

We are going to try to see a little, following what you know. Some people are obliged to stay in Rwanda despite the critical situation and we are going to talk, George, of some observations or precision.…

Speaker: GEORGE

Yes, I have had an opportunity with other colleagues, to discuss, to circulate in Kigali, several times, since the beginning of the tragic events. At the present the situation is, in part, getting a bit modified. We notice certain carelessness; we also notice the return of persons in Kigali or notice the movement of people.

[The First Speaker]

I think it is necessary to call the attention of the Kigali inhabitants to well clear issues. The first point is that Unamir now circulates a lot in Kigali, accompanied by foreign journalists. Yes, exactly, the white persons (George). All of them don’t speak French. Apparently no Belgians, believe me. Those who still hate Belgians should be sure that these journalists are not Belgians. They are foreign journalists. I think that the population has got interest to show itself conciliating, I don’t mean kind but conciliating. It wouldn’t be good, for the good image of Rwanda and for the good image of our struggle, to be systematically aggressive towards these foreign journalists who came to report the truth. The truth is not to be aggressive towards the foreigners. The truth is that we defend the town besieged, in part, by R.P.F. and we defend it against unverifiable elements. The journalists are, not primarily, among the people we must turn aggressive to. If it is good to control them, it is not good at all to be aggressive towards them.

However, we must be careful with these journalists, we’ve got to know that a journalist, in search for information, will always be kind and friendly towards persons to whom he asks questions and who help him to collect information but that, afterwards, he can be less kind when he will have these pieces of information and that he can maybe use them maybe against you. Pay thus attention if journalists take photos or video films. Don’t entrap yourselves in situations which may turn against you nor should say words which can, later on, be used against us or against you. So pay attention to what you say as well as…. [cut]

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA, Journalist for R.T.L.M.

[cut] In the day time, as street boy, he spies for R.P.F. and afterwards he goes to the battlefield. This child of Inkotanyi tells you how sorcerers, including women who suck themselves, died at Rebero. You will hear how at Rebero white persons got seriously wounded but kept on staying there. You will hear how they use traps for moles and cicadas so that they can find something to eat. You will also hear the child recognizing that they will not win this war. And then he has revealed to me that since he used a heavy weapon, which made him lose his strength, they put big pieces of wood on him so that the weapon couldn’t be heavier than him. So he shot, these pieces of wood being on his shoulders. As a result, he has got wounds on his shoulders. He will tell us a lot of things about the cockroaches, R.P.F.

Listen to his revelations. It is sad. It is sad to hear that the cockroaches take 12-year-old children, young children, to the battlefield and give them difficult tasks because there are children, still ignorant, and not yet intelligent enough,. The child may think that he can pass through the shootings or fly. They make him pass in fire and when they shoot, they tell him that nothing bad can happen to him.

According to this same child, last night Inkotanyi were going to attack Nyamirambo at midnight to kill people, beginning with a man called Abdou. This is the reason why on the roadblocks you must be vigilant. And then you have to see: in a short time, Thimothe Biziyaremye and Vianney Kayitare will begin to ask him questions. In these questions, this child of Inkotanyi will give the state of things. However, in order to keep his revelations, everyone should see whether his neighbor is not concerned with what the child says and arrest him if necessary.

Those who are at the market you will be told things about those children you call street children. You will hear that many of them are Inkotanyi. Look at all of them and then touch on their heads, you will see a sign showing you that there are Inkotanyi. There is a zero sign shaved at the back side of their heads; touch and see. You will see R.P.F. children who, in daytime, make themselves street children but who, in the night, disguise themselves and go to inform R.P.F. on the situation.

And you people who live down there near Rugunga, even though it is raining, go out. You will see Inkotanyi’s straw-huts in the marsh where horses are kept. It is clear then that this place shelters Inkotanyi. I think that those who have guns should immediately go to these Inkotanyi before they listen to Radio R.T.L.M. and flee. Stand near this place and encircle them and kill them because they are there.

You are then going to listen to this Inkotanyi child we have captured this morning. You will know the course of the situation and how Inkotanyi are dare-devils. You will learn that, our victory against them is certain. It is not even necessary to negotiate with them. We need ammunitions and enough weapons so that we can fight against them and no doubt we will have the victory we will win since Inkotanyi are desperate. People who bring sorcerers, women who suck and… In a short moment you are going to listen to the interview I have had with that Inkotanyi but you should put into action what he tells you, arrest those street children. There are three at Kimisagara near Rose’s. There is a team of 30 street children which informs Inkotanyi on the number of people who are on barriers, the kind of weapons they have, how they sleep. I don’t want to take your time. Listen to this child.

For those who have this child, I think that we in Rwanda we don’t kill children. He had been induced in error and we still need him for a lot of things. Don’t kill him; instead give him food. Interahamwe who have him should keep him. He must retire from Inkotanyi to be Interahamwe and he will continue telling us a lot of things about Inkotanyi and this will help us to defeat them because he knows a lot of things, his elder brother is an R.P.F. soldier. He joined R.P.F. when he was ten, eleven or twelve years old, something like that. So listen to him but keep this child alive. He will be Interahamwe.

The ChildD. Nizeyimana [the first name is not clear]
JournalistHow did you come here?
The ChildWe were coming from Kiyovu together with other Inkotanyi. They have sent us to Onatracom.
JournalistWhat was your mission here?
The ChildThey have told us to come and see how barriers are formed.
JournalistHow have you been captured?
The ChildI came, got closer when a young man came and immediately captured me.
JournalistWhat did he ask you after having captured you?
The ChildHe asked me where I live and I told him that it is down there.
JournalistHow many boys did you come with?
The ChildTwo boys.
JournalistWhat did they have?
The ChildOne had a grenade and another had a gun
JournalistWhat kind of gun?
The ChildKalashnikov
JournalistThis is not what you said before.
The ChildHmm…
JournalistThis is not what you had said.
The ChildHe had a Kalashnikov.
Another JournalistBefore you said something different.
The ChildDo you mean the boys we came together?
JournalistYes.
The ChildNo, I mean. I remember ours.
The Two JournalistsWe ask you about the guns you brought here.
The ChildEh… Pistols
The First JournalistYou said something else before.
The Second JournalistWhat did your colleagues have?
The ChildHe had pistol and that gun called G3 and…
JournalistNo, before you told us that you came with three young men.
The ChildOne had a pistol and another had a radio
JournalistO.K.… and then why others haven’t been captured?
The ChildOne fled and hid himself in the cypresses; another passed on the tarmac road and fled.
JournalistWhere were you at that time?
The ChildWe were there at Onatracom, near the mosque
JournalistWho are you? Where do you live? and what is your job?
The ChildI joined the R.P.F. when they came to take us from home. At that time we lived in Byumba and the R.P.F. enrolled us in the army.
JournalistWhy did they recruit you while you are still too young?
The ChildThey wanted us to fight for the country or else we will not win.
JournalistWhat was your mission here?
The ChildI had the mission to see what kind of people are on the barriers, their numbers and their weapons.
JournalistAnd after?
The ChildI had to go to inform our chief.
JournalistWhat is his name?
The ChildI don’t remember his name.
JournalistYou don’t know your chief’s name?
Another JournalistHave you forgotten?
The ChildYes.
JournalistWhere do you live? And after having collected this information where do you meet Inkotanyi ?
The ChildWhen you come from the town you meet them at Gitega on the macadamized road
JournalistWhere?
The ChildAt Gitega.
JournalistWhere do they live?
The ChildThey?
JournalistThose who live with you. To to whom you give information on what you have seen.
The ChildSome live at Kiyovu.
JournalistWhere precisely?
The ChildAt Kiyovu, in front of the houses of the whites who keep horses.
JournalistDo you live in houses?
The ChildNo, we live outside.
JournalistHow is the place and where?
The ChildWe have built straw-huts at that place.
JournalistDo you live with them?
The ChildYes.
JournalistDo you know where Inkotanyi live?
The ChildYes, we do
JournalistWhere do they live?
The ChildThey live at… at Gatenga
JournalistOnly at Gatenga?
The ChildNo, also in the marsh
JournalistWhich marsh?
The ChildNear the road of Gikondo.
JournalistWhere else do they live?
The ChildAt Butamwa
JournalistButamwa?
Another JournalistNo, don’t cut words. Normally we want to ask you when you joined the R.P.F., your name. What is your name?
The ChildMy name is D. Nizeyimana[again, not clear]
JournalistYour father?
The ChildNicholas Turikunkiko
JournalistYour mother?
The ChildDomitille Kahozeho
JournalistWhich prefecture?
The ChildByumba
JournalistWhich Commune?
The ChildI don’t remember.
JournalistHave you forgotten?
The ChildYes
JournalistHow long have you been in the R.P.F.?
The ChildFor about five years.
JournalistIs it true? Tell the truth, no one is forcing you.
The ChildI joined the R.P.F. when I was seven; I was about to begin primary school.
JournalistYou said that you know how to read. How do you know how to read when you didn’t study not even for the first year of primary school?
The ChildMy elder brother taught me how to read.
JournalistWas your elder in the R.P.F.?
The ChildWe lived together.
JournalistIn the R.P.F. Inkotanyi ?
The ChildYes.
JournalistTell me all the places you went to. Did you go to Jari?
The ChildYes I did.
JournalistHow many Inkotanyi are there?
The ChildMore than one thousand.
JournalistAt Jari?
The ChildYes.
JournalistYou told me that the day before yesterday, you went there. Who sent you there? Where were you coming from and from where did the vehicle pick you up?
The ChildThey picked me up from Kiyovu and we went to Jari to fight.
JournalistIn what kind of vehicle?
The ChildNo vehicle
JournalistDid you go on foot?
The ChildYes.
JournalistYou told me that you have soldiers at Rebero. Did you live at Rebero?
The ChildI lived there
JournalistFor how long?
The ChildWe didn’t stay there a long time. We lived there with white men and R.P.F. sorcerers.
JournalistHow many white men?
The ChildTwo
JournalistYou had said five, you had told me five
The ChildEh, yes, five
JournalistNo, no one speaks for you.
The ChildWhite men? I personally saw two white men
JournalistWhy had you said five before?
The ChildEh…
JournalistYou told me that you have also been at Butamwa.
The ChildI went there.
JournalistWhat kind of vehicle were you using?
The ChildWe used the vehicle that soldiers had left.
JournalistWhich means that the soldiers had it and you attacked them before you took it.
The ChildYes, they had left, we took it and we too left.
JournalistWhat was its registration number?
The ChildNumber?
JournalistSay its number, you have said it before. I still remember them.
Another JournalistHave you forgotten?
JournalistIts AC… complete,
The ChildAC 70…
JournalistAnd…
The ChildAC 72.12
JournalistYou had said AC78.12. Am I wrong?
Another JournalistLet’s leave it. Now, tell us the kind of guns you have been taught and which ones do you use?
The ChildWe use G3, and Kalashnikov and… that small gun called
JournalistIs it a pistol, an Uzi, a Kalashnikov, an R4…?
The ChildIt is a pistol and…
JournalistYou told us it is a pistol?
The ChildYes.
Journalist…[not clear] Do you use pistols?
The ChildYes we have pistols and Uzis.
JournalistAnd then what are the kinds of heavy weapons you use? Do you know them?
The ChildNo, we got them from those white men.
JournalistAre they used by those white men?
The ChildYes.
JournalistDo you know how to use all those guns they taught you?
The ChildNo.
JournalistWhich one do you know how to use?
The ChildUzi and Kalashnikov.
JournalistDo you know how to open them?
The ChildYes, I do.
JournalistIf someone gives you Kalashnikov, can you open it?
The ChildYes I can.
JournalistAnd what is that?
The ChildA grenade.
JournalistDo you know how to throw it?
The ChildYes I do.
JournalistAnything else?
The ChildThere are times when you open, throw it and lie down.
JournalistNothing more?
The ChildYou can also throw it…
JournalistWhat have you said before?… [not clear]
The ChildThere is also another small grenade.
JournalistHow do you use it?
The ChildWe can open it and throw it
JournalistThis is not what you said, can you open it, close it? Didn’t you say that you trap people with it houses?
The ChildNo, because the boy left it in the house and I told him that he can step on it.
JournalistWhich one did you say they set as a trap?
The ChildIt is that one which resembles a pineapple.
JournalistPineapple?
The ChildYes.
JournalistDo you trap people with it?
The ChildYes.
JournalistHow?
The ChildWe go and put in the trap of a person and open it and if an unfortunate person steps on it, it blows him up.

[End]

Speaker: Kantano HABIMANA

…we think of you people from Byumba who fled to Ngara in Tanzania and all the people who are in exile. Be patient; to suffer is not to die. Be patient in this war launched by the cockroaches Inkotanyi who came idling us and eating our things saying that they will take the power. They can never take it. They can make all people flee but I think that the number of Inkotanyi which is no more than 5,000 cannot rule this country. They asked the assistance of children, white men and sorcerers. But this is meaningless because even white men and those sons of bitches Belgians who go every where looking for money or ladies can’t do any thing. You remember that when the U.S. launched a serious attack of thousands and thousands of soldiers in Vietnam they failed to sit their power because they hadn’t the population’s support. So I think that Inkotanyi will continue to die in our potatoes. The Inkotanyi we captured this morning told us that they hunt moles, partridges and cicadas. So it is wrong to think that such people will rule this country, that they will become officers, drive our vehicles and live in our houses. This will never happen. Let me greet soldiers who always request me for encouragement through greetings: Corporal Jean Paul Nshimiyimana who is in the Muvumba first battalion. He says, “Kantano, I write this letter greeting you very much.” How are you, continue defeating the enemy as you have always done. “In few words, I wanted to greet you. I am born in Butare in Muyaga commune, Sector Ramba. My greetings go to all the people of Muyaga; at Muzenga, at Mathew Mbarubukeye’s.” You greet your father, we hope that at Muzenga they listen to Radio R.T.L.M. He goes on saying that he knows those people very much there at S.H.A. [laugh] This soldier is from my region. I encourage him, since Inkotanyi want to take this country. People say that you refuse to die, on the battlefield fighting, and you die killed, without any price, by dogs. So stand up and fight against the enemy if you don’t want Inkotanyi to find you in a refugee camp begging for maize, go and contact the soldiers who will teach you things, help them to carry things and then you will go to fight against Inkotanyi and make them understand what they are. In any case, it is obvious that Inkotanyi have no strength. They are using terrorism, they are shooting any how and… but this is only noise they will not be able to chase us from our country. Corporal Jean Paul Nshiyimana also sends the following message to Celestin Ntamwezi, now living at Kanombe airport and whom he had left Kicukiro on 13 May 1994 for Kigali camp. He asks him to send immediately the binoculars he left in the car and anyone who knows him can give this message because these binoculars are very much needed on the battlefield, He expresses his confidence in me and that he sends the money for this communiqué, which is not necessary for such a kind of communiqué. He needs these binoculars so that he can unveil Inkotanyi, where they are hidden.

Another letter comes from Marie Louise Makobwajana of Islamic School.

She first of all expresses her greetings to me. She is a bit fine. She wants through this letter to communicate the following things to Inkotanyi : The first thing is that if Inkotanyi refuse the Arusha Peace Accords so that we can live together, we will defeat them since we have a lot of young men. You have seen that Inkotanyi do recourse to children because a lot of grown up people in the Inkotanyi are dead. But we have strong young men aged more than twenty who fight against Inkotanyi. If we come to the point of requesting for the assistance of 16-year-old children, things will be difficult, but we are not yet in the same situation as the Inkotanyi ; you know that they lose day and night.

The second thing is that she condemns the governments of Uganda and Belgium who openly support the cockroaches, and she is not the only one to condemn them. The remaining cockroaches should accept negotiations before they are finished up. Our soldiers are hunting them in order to kill them all. She wants me to greet Noël for her. She says “Courage!” She, too, has been wounded by bullets in the leg, but it is not serious. She ends this letter asking me to greet her classmate Francoise Uwamariya who lives at Nyamirambo, Nyakabanda. She says that there is another young lady Marie Jeanne Uwimana who is greeting me. So Marie Jeanne Uwimana and Marie Louise Mukobwajana I thank you very much and I wish you to be resistant in this rainy morning.

Corporal Creophace Bagaragaza, third battalion, wants to inform his wife Patricie Nzanywayimana, living in exile, that he has been injured and is now in C.K.H. This information also goes to Raphael Ngomampire who lives in Cyeru commune, to Tharcisse Mugabarigira who lives in Kacyiru commune and even Baribwira, nicknamed Faranga, who lives at Kimihurura. He tells them that he has been injured but he is still alive. Let’s listen to this music so that our army continues to dance, to dance and defeat those daredevils.

End of Side A

[Note: Side B of this cassette is blank.]